Disappointing Results using new MES

[eulerid]

EDIT:  After smoking, obviously everything smells like smoke.  But it was only skin deep, and it smelled like charcoal smoke.  I want the smoke to smell like the wood I am using, and I want it in the meat.  Thank goodness the meat did not have that taste.

------- original post--------

As I mentioned in my post to roll call, I was an occasional smoker.  We used a Brinkman electric smoker, wet wood chunks, and water pan to help control temperature.  Throughout the smoke, the air filled with the aroma of the wood we used.  The turkey meat flavor had a distinct flavoring of whatever wood we were using.  But the disadvantage for us was the need for constant monitoring. 

I was looking forward to the control the MES would give me.  After seasoning the new smoker, our first smoke was a turkey with hickory wood chips.  The chips were added per instructions.  Very little smoke was generated.  The turkey turned out great as far as the cooking, but there was no way to tell that it had been smoked (this was a timed smoke).

I discovered this forum in search of answers and learned about the following:

The importance of smoking to temperature so we purchased the Maverick 732 remote thermometer.  How to get more smoke, using wood pellets and the A-MAZE-N PLTS2PIT 5x7 tray and pellets.  So I bought that also.  Worked as advertised and testified as far as generating more smoke. 

Our next two smokes, a Boston Butt Pork Roast and week later a Turkey and Boston Butt Roast, again turned out perfectly cooked.  But there was no aroma of the wood detectable in the air during the smoke.  We use mesquite on the former and hickory pellets on the latter.  Also, there was no distinct wood flavoring in the meat.

Both of the Boston Butt Pork Roast smokes were nearly 14 hours in the smoker.  The turkey was nearly 6 hours.

What can I do to get more of the wood flavor into the meat?  Also, I want to smell the wood aroma in the air.

Bill

 

[crankybuzzard]

WOW!  No smoke smell or flavor at all?

I fire up a tube or tray of pellets and my neighbors come over and ask what's smoking...

What pellets are you using (brand) and what temps are you running?

 

[eulerid]

Brand name is A-MAZE-N pellets.

For turkey: (our turkey was 12 lb not the 19 lb in the recipe below)

From Masterbuilt website:

Fill water pan 1/3 full with a 50/50 mixture of apple juice and water. Preheat smoker to 225°F.

Place turkey on middle rack in smoker and close the door. Smoke for 9 1/2 hours or until internal temperature in breast reaches 165°F. (This total cooking time is for a 19-pound whole turkey. Based on the weight of your turkey, you will need to adjust the total cooking time. Estimated time at 225°F is about 30 minutes per pound. Make sure your internal temperature in the breast reaches 165°F.)

For the Boston Butt  (never had done a Boston Butt) 

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/140055/boston-butt-pulled-pork-step-by-step

Bill

 

[jakester]

Something just doesn't add up here. I will say my MES is lighter on smoke vs my WSM but still you can definitely taste the smoker flavor. 

 

[SmokinAl]

Hickory & mesquite & still no smoke flavor.

I guess my questions would be.

Did you light the pellets? Just joking  

Did the pellets burn up or was the tray still full of un-burnt pellets?

Was there smoke coming out of the smoker exhaust?

If there was smoke coming out, did it smell like wood?

To me this is almost impossible to understand.

Hopefully someone else will have an answer.

Al

 

[eulerid]

Originally Posted by jakester  
 

"Something just doesn't add up here. I will say my MES is lighter on smoke vs my WSM but still you can definitely taste the smoker  flavor."

[I see now the importance of quoting]

When you say "smoker flavor," are you referring the distinct smoke flavor of the wood you are using?  The smell of the smoke had no distinct aroma.   I need to clarify that on the skin of the turkey, there was a smoke smell but nothing distinctive about it.  However, if I served you meat below skin deep, it would neither smell or taste smoked.

The temperature outside ranged between 26-32 degrees during the smoke.

 

[eulerid]

 
Hickory & mesquite & still no smoke flavor.

I guess my questions would be.

Did you light the pellets? Just joking  

Did the pellets burn up or was the tray still full of un-burnt pellets? 

Was there smoke coming out of the smoker exhaust?

If there was smoke coming out, did it smell like wood?

To me this is almost impossible to understand.

Hopefully someone else will have an answer.

Al

Did you light the pellets? yes (sigh)

Did the pellets burn up or was the tray still full of un-burnt pellets? yes - the A-MAZE-N PLTS2PIT 5x7 tray worked perfectly.

Was there smoke coming out of the smoker exhaust? yes, instead of the drizzle of smoke from the wood chips, the A-MAZE-N PLTS2PIT, produced copious smoke

If there was smoke coming out, did it smell like wood? The smoke did not smell like wood burning (I mean there was no aroma of the wood the pellet was supposed to be from.  It was just like smoke from a charcoal grill).

Bill

 

[chopsaw]

I was unhappy with my MES30 at first . Learned the stuff you mentioned on here . I use the 12" tube , and have the mail box mod . I still use the chip loader on mine as well . It smells like smoke even when its not on . I do notice less smoke flavor , but it is there . Keep smoking , and running chips / pellets thru it . You're gonna like it . 

I wanted to ask , what temp did you run at on the first Turkey smoke ? I use the chip loader when I do poultry because I run it hotter . 

 

[eulerid]

 
I was unhappy with my MES30 at first . Learned the stuff you mentioned on here . I use the 12" tube , and have the mail box mod . I still use the chip loader on mine as well . It smells like smoke even when its not on . I do notice less smoke flavor , but it is there . Keep smoking , and running chips / pellets thru it . You're gonna like it . 

I wanted to ask , what temp did you run at on the first Turkey smoke ? I use the chip loader when I do poultry because I run it hotter . 

Both turkeys were at 225 degrees.  The recipe I got at Masterbuilt's website had two versions of it:  fast or slow.  I chose slow (lower temp) because that would allow for more exposure to smoke.  I think that I also need to try other brands of pellets.  The wood chips do have the aroma of the wood in the smoke, but there isn't enough smoke.  If this doesn't work, I am going back to a smoker that takes wood chunks.  However, you gave me an option of combining pellets and chips.  I will give that a try.

I hope everyone understood that, after smoking, obviously everything smells like smoke.  But it was only skin deep, and it smelled like charcoal smoke.  I want the smoke to smell like the wood I am using, and I want it in the meat.

Thanks

 

[paul6]

Both turkey and Butts are dense meat , the only way you are going to get smoke flavor through out the entire meat is to burn it beyond recognition ! That's why butts are usually pulled and mixed this way you get the outer bark mixed with the rest of the meat . With poultry if you have bark it is not going to taste very good . I have an MES that I usually just use for fish or a thinner meat like pork chops that I want to use a water pan for , everything else goes in the offset . I understand what you mean about the smoke taste , but using an  electric with chips or pellet your just not going to get the same flavor as using wood chunks or splits .

 

[eulerid]

 
Both turkey and Butts are dense meat , the only way you are going to get smoke flavor through out the entire meat is to burn it beyond recognition ! That's why butts are usually pulled and mixed this way you get the outer bark mixed with the rest of the meat . With poultry if you have bark it is not going to taste very good . I have an MES that I usually just use for fish or a thinner meat like pork chops that I want to use a water pan for , everything else goes in the offset . I understand what you mean about the smoke taste , but using an  electric with chips or pellet your just not going to get the same flavor as using wood chunks or splits .

Thanks for the feedback.

I never intended to get the smoke of the wood throughout the entire meat.  I just want the same results as I got from my red Brinkmann (I no longer have it).  It is sad they declared bankruptcy last summer.    A good offset looks like the ultimate solution. The link below is a great explanation of what to expect from a cheap offset and an expensive offset.  Given all the feedback,  I am going to ditch the MES.  I don't want to fiddle with getting it to work.

http://amazingribs.com/tips_and_technique/offset_smokers.html

.

 

[jakester]

A Weber smokey mountain is very similarly to the Brinkmann but with much better results and easy of use. Maybe you should look into one

 

[Bearcarver]

 
Both turkeys were at 225 degrees.  The recipe I got at Masterbuilt's website had two versions of it:  fast or slow.  I chose slow (lower temp) because that would allow for more exposure to smoke.  I think that I also need to try other brands of pellets.  The wood chips do have the aroma of the wood in the smoke, but there isn't enough smoke.  If this doesn't work, I am going back to a smoker that takes wood chunks.  However, you gave me an option of combining pellets and chips.  I will give that a try.

I hope everyone understood that, after smoking, obviously everything smells like smoke.  But it was only skin deep, and it smelled like charcoal smoke.  I want the smoke to smell like the wood I am using, and I want it in the meat.

Thanks

First thing to do with an MES Smoker is dump the liquids out of the water pan, cover it with foil (too make it easy to clean now & then), and put it back in place. That extra Humidity could be affecting your Smoke Absorption. We don't use water in the pan in an MES. It doesn't do anything good in there.

Heavy Turkey Skin can keep Smoke from getting into the meat beneath the Skin.

The types of wood pellets differ mostly in strength, but not much in different flavors. Mesquite being the Strongest---Hickory is strong, and my favorite. Everything else is more mild, with Cherry being more recognizable than the others. However Cherry is hard to keep burning in an AMNPS.

Hope this helps,

Bear

 

[remsr]

Well that will make you scratch your head. Both my WSM and my MES smell like wood smoke. I can open the door on my MES on a breezy day and my Neighbor will smell it all the way up in the front yard. I use dry wood splits in the WSM and dry pellets and sometimes dry chips in the MES and never fill my water pan with water which is filled with sand and wrapped in tin foil. I mostly use Tregers comption blend pellets since I have a 40 pound sack of them. And you can taste it on the meats in fact when I burp I taste the wood smoke that was on the meat. When I first started smoking I used a propane smoker and a full water pan and the wood flavor was stronger and it smelled and tasted different on the meats, ribs tasted and smelled like bacon because of the gas fumes, steam from the water pan and the wood I used. Stick burners use only wood for fule and defenstly impart a wood fire flavor but a very light flavor that complements the meat without over powering it. I think you may have gotten use to something different because of the combinations of what you used before. That was my experience when I changed units. But I have gotten use to the difference yet still miss that bacon flavor on my ribs. So Bear gave me a recipe for bacon on a stick to replace that taste.
Randy,

 

[Bearcarver]

NOTE:   Another thing I always forget to mention is:

When you're out there with the Smoke for a long time, or a whole bunch of short times, you get Smoke in your nostrils, and all over your body & clothes.

Then you don't taste much smoke on the meat, because you become accustom to it.

Try some meat the next day, after taking a shower & blowing your nose.

Bear

 

[eulerid]

 
First thing to do with an MES Smoker is dump the liquids out of the water pan, cover it with foil (too make it easy to clean now & then), and put it back in place. That extra Humidity could be affecting your Smoke Absorption. We don't use water in the pan in an MES. It doesn't do anything good in there.

Heavy Turkey Skin can keep Smoke from getting into the meat beneath the Skin.

The types of wood pellets differ mostly in strength, but not much in different flavors. Mesquite being the Strongest---Hickory is strong, and my favorite. Everything else is more mild, with Cherry being more recognizable than the others. However Cherry is hard to keep burning in an AMNPS.

Hope this helps,

Bear

Thanks for the response.  I do not understand what you mean by wood pellets differ in strength but not in flavor.  Do you mean regardless of the wood chip you use, the smoke flavor is the same?

Bill

 

[Bearcarver]

 
Thanks for the response.  I do not understand what you mean by wood pellets differ in strength but not in flavor.  Do you mean regardless of the wood chip you use, the smoke flavor is the same?

Bill

Sorry about my Shorthand typing.

I meant that they all range in strength of smoke flavor, but it would be hard to really tell which flavor of wood is which by flavor.

Mesquite being the strongest, then Hickory, maybe then Oak, and the rest more mild, however like I said Cherry is more distinguishable than most 

These are in my opinion, while using my taste & smell senses, which could be more, but probably less sensitive than most.

Bear

 

[paul6]

I have the Charbroil Oklahoma Joe  (yea it's not a Lang or some of the other pricey smokers ) and love it . I dropped the chimney to grate level put in a homemade heat Shield and use a homemade charcoal basket . The Oklahoma Joe is a heavy gauge steel and I love it !

Bear is right about the water pan in the MES, I only use it if smoking something like pork chops or another lean meat that can dry out ..

 

[eulerid]

 
Sorry about my Shorthand typing.

I meant that they all range in strength of smoke flavor, but it would be hard to really tell which flavor of wood is which by flavor.

Mesquite being the strongest, then Hickory, maybe then Oak, and the rest more mild, however like I said Cherry is more distinguishable than most 

These are in my opinion, while using my taste & smell senses, which could be more, but probably less sensitive than most.

Bear

So you are confirming what I am thinking, it would be a waste of time to try to duplicate the flavor I had achieved using wood chunks with wood chips. That much is good to know.  It helps me to move on.

PS: I use the water on the first 2 smokes, then just foiled the pan for the last smoke (turkey and Boston butt) which I did in 7-degree weather last weekend 

Bill

 

[Bearcarver]

 
So you are confirming what I am thinking, it would be a waste of time to try to duplicate the flavor I had achieved using wood chunks with wood chips. That much is good to know.  It helps me to move on.

PS: I use the water on the first 2 smokes, then just foiled the pan for the last smoke (turkey and Boston butt) which I did in 7-degree weather last weekend 

Bill

Well Bill---That would be my opinion.

If I had to pick certain flavors of Smoke on food, in a blind test, I think the only ones I might get right would be Mesquite, Hickory, Cherry, and then "one of All the Rest".

Reasons:

Mesquite because it's the strongest.

Hickory because I use it 95% of the time.

Cherry because it has a very distinct flavor.

And all the rest are weaker.

Bear