Different pork ham recipe....

[dernektambura]

Talked to friend of mine and he gave me cure recipe to try... it's different from any other cure I tried in terms of calculating cure amount... He said:
Total Ham leg weight minus bones weight minus 35% weight loss equal cure amount...
so I got myself to local butcher store and got me a 6.5 kg ham leg...
math goes like:
6500 gr. total weight minus
1500 gr. bones equal 5000 gr...
5000gr. minus 35% loss equal to 3250 gr...
3250 + 0.25% = 8.12 gr. of cure#2
3250 + 2.5% salt = 81.25 gr. of salt...
rest of it are spices...
stuffed in big bag, suck the air through the straw and sealed.... friend said its called modified equilibrium cure.... its gunna cure for 30 to 45 days in fridge...
What do you think?

 

[daveomak]

The commercial charts I just looked at showed 25% loss from skin, fat and bone on a 45# ham....
OK, using that method.... I'm afraid your ham will end up with bone sour...
Did your friend give you any specifics as to what to do during the curing process ???
Has your friend cured hams using his method ???

That method may work but doesn't seen to likely....

 

[daveomak]

Using the dry cure method for hams and such, that take a long time for the meat to fully process, as you can see, the amounts are considerably different from making sausage... I think your friend is missing some necessary information...

 

[JC in GB]

The commercial charts I just looked at showed 25% loss from skin, fat and bone on a 45# ham....
OK, using that method.... I'm afraid your ham will end up with bone sour...
Did your friend give you any specifics as to what to do during the curing process ???
Has your friend cured hams using his method ???

That method may work but doesn't seen to likely....

What is bone sour?

 

[daveomak]

ALSO.... sorry I keep thinking of stuff to pass on....
Cure #2 does NOT work in refrigerated meats... The bacteria necessary to break down the nitrate to nitrite is totally inactive at refer temps... Soooooo, I would rub an additional....

3250 x 0.000200 = 0.65 grams nitrite/0.0625 = 10.4 grams of cure #1 NOW and again in 20 days...

Think about a netting sock and hanging foot down after the curing fridge process in a cool cellar... May need to add more salt also....

 

[daveomak]

What is bone sour?

Bone sour is when the meat has not been adequately processed and cooled...
Cooled in a ~32F cooler for 48 hours so the cold gets completely to the meat..
Hence a warm bone will begin to sour the meat....
Using this long term process, only pure white granulated sugar should be used as brown sugars have impurities and might/will foul the meat.....

 

[dernektambura]

Thanks for help and answers Dave...
Yes, friend does his hams hams this way and he says his hams are less salty after 9 monts of dry aging in celar at 50 to 55F and 60 to 70 RH... Somehow it makes sense to make bones and skin deduction from total weight for cure calculation cuz bones and skin doesn't take salt...what Iam vory about is 40% less amount of salt in cure...
BTW... I didnt mention in my first post that ham will be dry aged for at least 9 month...my bad...

 

[dernektambura]

as for "sour bone" It should be ok.... Internal ham (35F) temp didn't change in a short transport time from butcher store to my fridge so ham should be internally healthy...

 

[atomicsmoke]

Bone sour is when the meat has not been adequately processed and cooled...
Cooled in a ~32F cooler for 48 hours so the cold gets completely to the meat..
Hence a warm bone will begin to sour the meat....
Using this long term process, only pure white granulated sugar should be used as brown sugars have impurities and might/will foul the meat.....

I mighr be wrong (not the first time), but i remember reading that one of the bone sour triggers is insufficient bleeding of the leg vein near the bone.

 

[dernektambura]

I mighr be wrong (not the first time), but i remember reading that one of the bone sour triggers is insufficient bleeding of the leg vein near the bone.

Yes Atomic... I always squeeze as much blood from vein that runs along femur bone... it is tedious job and thumbs do get sore... it is quite amount of blood in there...

 

[daveomak]

There's a lot of stuff you didn't say in your first post....
Posting an incomplete method, as you did, could screw up someone making a ham based on that first post...
Although, it keeps some members busy, trying to get stuff straight, so screwing up someone later doesn't happen....
Yep, it's perfectly fine to subtract skin and bone weights... 50F and 70 RH is perfect for the dry aging... AND, Cure#2 is the appropriate cure to use for the 50F long term storage... I would use more than the original amount.. maybe a second addition after the refer and before the cellar... Are you going to coat the leg with black pepper to keep any flies off ???

 

[dernektambura]

There's a lot of stuff you didn't say in your first post....
Posting an incomplete method, as you did, could screw up someone making a ham based on that first post...
Although, it keeps some members busy, trying to get stuff straight, so screwing up someone later doesn't happen....
Yep, it's perfectly fine to subtract skin and bone weights... 50F and 70 RH is perfect for the dry aging... AND, Cure#2 is the appropriate cure to use for the 50F long term storage... I would use more than the original amount.. maybe a second addition after the refer and before the cellar... Are you going to coat the leg with black pepper to keep any flies off ???

yeah I missed to mention its dry aging processing similar to prosciuto but rest of the his recipe is complete description...
I wouldn't think someone would try this metod unless it is confirmed it works and that is why I posted questions to get inputs...
As for flies deterrent I'll cold smoke ham @ 50 to 55 F for about 2 weeks at 12/24 and 4/24 hrs on smoke/off smoke intervals...
and coat with peper/hungarian paprika mix...

 

[dernektambura]

the way I figure it's not going to go bad instantly... if it goes bad it's gonna start going bad internally close to bones and I should be able to use "chopstick smell metod" by inserting chopstick near the bone and smell will indicite if something wrong...

 

[atomicsmoke]

Horde bone

the way I figure it's not going to go bad instantly... if it goes bad it's gonna start going bad internally close to bones and I should be able to use "chopstick smell metod" by inserting chopstick near the bone and smell will indicite if something wrong...

Neeh....a toothpick won't do. You need a $100 horsebone needle for that. Probably twive you paid for the ham LOL

 

[dernektambura]

Horde bone

Neeh....a toothpick won't do. You need a $100 horsebone needle for that. Probably twive you paid for the ham LOL

Japanese wooden chopstick works just fine to smell if ham goes bad around bone... its very distinct odour.... may as well stick broomstick to check and it will still come out stinky... you're talking about horse bone to check aging progress.... anyhow, good input...

 

[dernektambura]

look... never mind chopstick, broomstick or horsebone needle, good info but... that's not what I asked for... I've got different cure recipe and it's open for discussion and good input from experienced charcuterie dudes...
so far only Dave stands up to his endless knowledge... it is all about learning and doing it safely...

 

[atomicsmoke]

look... never mind chopstick, broomstick or horsebone needle, good info but... that's not what I asked for... I've got different cure recipe and it's open for discussion and good input from experienced charcuterie dudes...
so far only Dave stands up to his endless knowledge... it is all about learning and doing it safely...

Sorry for derailing your thread.

 

[atomicsmoke]

On the topic. I dont think you can use the final weight (after drying) to calculate salt and cure. The formulations are made for green weight. Until it gets there the meat has less than the mininum concentration of preservatises commonly accepted. Will it be safe? Most likely. As for skin and bones...yes...their weight can be taken out. However...most of the ham is covered by skin. The salt/cure absorbtion is much less thru skin than directly on flesh. So reduced cure/salt quantities might not make a big difference.

 

[dernektambura]

On the topic. I dont think you can use the final weight (after drying) to calculate salt and cure. The formulations are made for green weight. Until it gets there the meat has less than the mininum concentration of preservatises commonly accepted. Will it be safe? Most likely. As for skin and bones...yes...their weight can be taken out. However...most of the ham is covered by skin. The salt/cure absorbtion is much less thru skin than directly on flesh. So reduced cure/salt quantities might not make a big difference.

I am going along the way you're reasoning... cure amount and formulas are generally acceptable by green weight...but... once product dries out it will shrink, so saltines will stay at green weight percentage but salinity of the final product weight will increase due to shrinkage.... that is the part that makes sense what is my friend talking about... why am I confused about this? Cuz what he is saying makes sense but cure amount he use to safely cure doesn't make sense... for all I know he is still alive and kicking....

 

[atomicsmoke]

I

I am going along the way you're reasoning... cure amount and formulas are generally acceptable by green weight...but... once product dries out it will shrink, so saltines will stay at green weight percentage but salinity of the final product weight will increase due to shrinkage.... that is the part that makes sense what is my friend talking about... why am I confused about this? Cuz what he is saying makes sense but cure amount he use to safely cure doesn't make sense... for all I know he is still alive and kicking....

I am not sure i understand the logic. The salt and cure amounts are measured for green weight knowing in advance the dry weight will be 35% less. It's been like that since ancient times.
Using smaller amount because the final weight is smaller is like using less salt in soup because some water will evaporate during cooking.
Why do you want to try this? Regular recipe is too salty for you?
As for the argument that your friend is still around....i know many (cigarette) smokers alive and kicking.