Did he eat it too soon?!?!

[risabell]

Hello! I’ve been scouring the forums for a few weeks gleaning off of yours all’s knowledge—Thank you!
The paterfamilias brought in a deer last week. I’ve been wanting to try and make some shelf stable summer sausage, and seized the opportunity to use the venison shoulder. I’m am a smoking beginner, and here is my present situation I can’t find an answer to:
I used 1 tsp of Cure #2 in 5lb of ground meat. Kept it refrigerated for 4 days. Smoked the uncased .5 lb sausages for 4 hours at 110-130 F in my smoke house. It was getting cold and dark so moved them in to finish in my oven. I slowly increased the temp on the oven starting at 170F to 185f over a period of 8 hours. My sausage temped at 147F when I turned the oven off at about 2:30 am and let them set in there. My husband then gets up for work about 7 am and slices some for his breakfast!!
Finally the questions, did he eat these too soon? Should they have cured longer or even been smoked again? He said it tasted wonderful, and I think it smells delicious. I’ll post pictures below. Lastly if it’s done can I just vacuum seal them now and store them in the root cellar??
TIA you all are AWESOME!
PS. I will share my full recipe if anyone would like it. :)

 

[pa42phigh]

I’m not an expert I’m sure some one with more knowledge will chime in.. I don’t think anything with cure #2 is supposed to be cooked

 

[risabell]

I’m not an expert I’m sure some one with more knowledge will chime in.. I don’t think anything with cure #2 is supposed to be cooked

Thank you for your input! I’m no expert either. I had read avoid high temps with cure #2 so I was trying to gently speed the drying process. I wanted to be able to store it at room temp so I went with #2 instead of #1. Hopefully someone will know how soon it can be consumed safely.

 

[TNJAKE]

BGKYSmoker uses cure 2 in slot of his products he's probably got an answer for you

 

[SmokinAl]

If your going to dry it out in the basement for a couple of months & the temp & humidity are right, you should be fine. However most dry cured sausages are either cold smoked then dried, or not smoked at all.
Al

 

[risabell]

Thanks! What humidity and temp am I looking for? My root cellar stays 45-55F and 70-80% humidity.
The biggest question, is the hubs safe by consuming some already this morning?

 

[indaswamp]

Yes, as mentioned, cure #2 is for raw dry cured products that will be dried for longer than 30 days. Cure #1 is for products that will be cooked, and those that will be finished within 30 days.

Your root cellar should be fine for dry curing your summer sausages. Just monitor them closely, you do not want case hardening to form which will stop the drying process. You want them to dry evenly so the center will lose moisture. A dry rim will stop the drying process and seal in moisture. You may need to bump the humidity 81-82.5%RH if the diameter of your summer sausages is more than
about 3" in dia.

 

[risabell]

Yes, as mentioned, cure #2 is for raw dry cured products that will be dried for longer than 30 days. Cure #1 is for products that will be cooked, and those that will be finished within 30 days.

Your root cellar should be fine for dry curing your summer sausages. Just monitor them closely, you do not want case hardening to form which will stop the drying process. You want them to dry evenly so the center will lose moisture. A dry rim will stop the drying process and seal in moisture. You may need to bump the humidity 81-82.5%RH if the diameter of your summer sausages is more than
about 3" in dia.

From all my readings though cure #1 will not make meat shelf stable.....? I wanted something that didn’t need refrigerated. From you knowledge was it safe he ate some this morning?? Thanks!!

 

[indaswamp]

The biggest question, is the hubs safe by consuming some already this morning?

Since you had the summer sausages in your oven @185*F for 8 hours, your husband is safe consuming them since you cooked the sausages.
If you want to dry them further, It may be difficult to do so for large dia. sausages. You may have a dry hard outer layer already formed from the cooking process.

Did you weigh the sausages before smoking so you can track the weight loss?

 

[risabell]

Since you had the summer sausages in your oven @185*F for 8 hours, your husband is safe consuming them since you cooked the sausages.
If you want to dry them further, It may be difficult to do so for large dia. sausages. You may have a dry hard outer layer already formed from the cooking process.

Did you weigh the sausages before smoking so you can track the weight loss?

I did weigh the prior yes! They were about 8 ounces a piece. The eternal temp only got to 147F. at its highest. They are just under 2” in diameter.

 

[indaswamp]

High heat- over 300*F- with cure #2 is where you run into problems. The nitrates can form Nitrosamines which are claimed to be carcenogens. This is why all bacon in the U.S. uses cure #1 by law. Also, erythorbate is used in bacon to help prevent the formation of nitrosamines, also by law.

I would think cooking @185*F, you should be fine. chef jimmyj might know for sure though.

 

[risabell]

Thank you indaswamp ! So in your opinion he can go ahead eat the rest of his roll now lol? I just wasn’t sure how soon it could be ate after putting cure #2 in it.

 

[indaswamp]

From all my readings though cure #1 will not make meat shelf stable.....? I wanted something that didn’t need refrigerated. From you knowledge was it safe he ate some this morning?? Thanks!!

The cure...either #1 or #2.... is there to prevent bad bugs from growing in the danger zone of 40-140*F while the sausage loses water. Once the water activity is low enough (generally around 30% water loss) the product is shelf stable. It is the loss of water that will now prevent bacteria from growing, not the cure. There simply is not enough moisture for the bacteria to grow.

 

[indaswamp]

Thank you indaswamp ! So in your opinion he can go ahead eat the rest of his roll now lol? I just wasn’t sure how soon it could be ate after putting cure #2 in it.

You can eat it now because the sausage has been submitted to the cooking process. Were it not cooked, and just cold smoked then dried, It would be ready to consume once the sausages lose 30% water by weight.

So cooking is the reason you can eat them now...

I would suggest weighing one of the sausages and compare that to the initial weight to see how dry the link is. At 20% weight loss, you have a semi-dry sausage that must be refrigerated (Not enough moisture loss to inhibit bacteria growth).

 

[indaswamp]

Do you know the pH of the summer sausage? Did you use a means to lower the pH of the summer sausage to achieve an acidic tang?

 

[risabell]

I weighed one and it looks like I’m already at about 20 % weight loss. I refrigerated the one he cut and will let him finish it. The rest I will hang in the cellar and keep a weight check on them over the next few weeks. The outside is firm but not hardened off to being impermeable, I don’t believe. We shall see! Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge indaswamp !!! I’ll update in a few weeks.

 

[risabell]

Do you know the pH of the summer sausage? Did you use a means to lower the pH of the summer sausage to achieve an acidic tang?

I added a couple teaspoons of white distilled vinegar

 

[indaswamp]

Do you know the percentage of salt used? or did you use a commercial seasoning mix?

 

[risabell]

Do you know the percentage of salt used? or did you use a commercial seasoning mix?

This is the recipe I was shooting for. I achieved everything but the internal temp . It only made it to 147F

 

[BGKYSmoker]

Are you trying to make old style SS that is shelf stable without refrigeration?