Dead Smoker

[tallbm]

Awesome post tallbm !!!

Thanks :)

Good morning Tallbm. Thank you for your response. My existing controller is not malfunctioning, it is just not a PID and I want the additional controll and accuracy of the Auber. What Dave is trying to assist me with is to install the Auber into the control of the TSM and I think he has figured it out! Basically what I am going to do is disconnect the 2 wires from the heating coil and use those now bare terminals to provide power for the auber. The 2, now loose wires from the coil will be attached to a new extension cord (14 Ga.), run through a grommet through the control box housing and plug into the back of the Auber. I will use the existing power cord to the TSM as the main power cord. We believe that this work around will keep all of the functions of the smoker still active except the coil will be controlled by the Auber. To turn everything on I will use the existing power switch. I hope this rambling makes sense. Gary

I think that should work for you and meat your requirement for going either way. Just don't have the new plug unplugged and lying around if you run the TSM from the original plug. Since you are wiring the new plug directly to the heating element it will get energized when the TSM is on and running from the original plug. I would hate for you to touch the energized prongs of the new plug in such a situation. You may want to consider wiring in a switch to the new plug to prevent such a situation so the power from the heating element doesnt make it past the switch into the exposed prongs of the new cord unless you flip the switch on :)

 

[Gary1]

I understand what you are saying. Here is what I plan to do to make it safe. Let me know what you think. The existing TSM male plug will plug into the wall. This will energize everything except the heating coils. I am going to mount a new female receptacle into the TSM controller box and wire it to where the coil wires were removed. This should give me continuous power as long as the TSM control is set to max temp. This is where I expect to get the power for the Auber controller. The coil is going to have a new cord attached directly to the 2 terminals and exit the existing control box with a cord that is only 10" long with a male plug on it. This is a direct hot wiring of the coil. This short cord will be too short to get to a wall outlet and will only reach the back of the Auber control. The original TSM controller will be set to max and the Auber will now control the temperature. I will make a shelf on top of the control box to mount the Auber right on the side of the TSM. You think it will work? If I plug the TSM power cord into the wall and remove the auber, the exposed male plug should be dead as it only connects to the coil and is not energized. Atleast that is the theory.

 

[BGKYSmoker]

I wired a 12/2 heavy duty cord to my element, that goes right to the back of my PID. The original digital control on TSM smoker has been by passed completely.

I had lots of help doing this

 

[Gary1]

Yes, the assistance of the members has been fantastic! I am well on my way and I hope to have a positive report within the week. My Auber is scheduled to arrive by Thursday so I should know soon. I really like the TSM smoker. Most of my smoking has been done on a homemade stick burner and while I have it tuned to give me great control I have to tend it every 45 minutes or so and it is located at my cabin which is 500 feet from my house so I have to stay out there for 6-10 hours and its limits what I can do while smoking. The electric gives me great control and it pretty much takes care of itself. Once I get the Auber and can program temperature changes it should only require a little supervision. I really need to say a special thank you to Davomak and Tallbm who have provided so much input. Thanks!! Gary

 

[tallbm]

I understand what you are saying. Here is what I plan to do to make it safe. Let me know what you think. The existing TSM male plug will plug into the wall. This will energize everything except the heating coils. I am going to mount a new female receptacle into the TSM controller box and wire it to where the coil wires were removed. This should give me continuous power as long as the TSM control is set to max temp. This is where I expect to get the power for the Auber controller. The coil is going to have a new cord attached directly to the 2 terminals and exit the existing control box with a cord that is only 10" long with a male plug on it. This is a direct hot wiring of the coil. This short cord will be too short to get to a wall outlet and will only reach the back of the Auber control. The original TSM controller will be set to max and the Auber will now control the temperature. I will make a shelf on top of the control box to mount the Auber right on the side of the TSM. You think it will work? If I plug the TSM power cord into the wall and remove the auber, the exposed male plug should be dead as it only connects to the coil and is not energized. Atleast that is the theory.

Hmmm I am following what you are saying but I think something is getting lost. Here is an image I mocked up what I think you just described:

1. Is the original TSM plug that goes to the wall
2. Is where you disconnected the wire from the TSM controller to the heating element
3. Is where you created a NEW female plug to the TSM controller using the wires removed from the heating element
4. Is where you created a NEW male plug from the TSM heating element that plugs into the Auber
5. Is the Auber plug that goes to the wall

Now in this diagram (my understanding of what you explained, I could have misunderstood something), the original TSM plug (1) is almost a dead circuit.
Meaning, you can turn on the TSM but power is only feed to the TSM controller and lights and the Female plug (3) but not the heating element. The female plug (3) will only receive power when the original TSM controller senses you are NOT near/at the set temp. When the TSM controller finds the temp is near/at/above the set temp no power will feed to the female plug and currently the female plug is plugged to nothing.

In the diagram the Auber (5) independently measures temp of the smoker and controls the temp of the smoker by cutting on/off power to the heating element (4).

Now if you plug the heating element plug (4) to the female TSM controller plug (3) you get back to the TSM controlling the heat to the heating element and the Auber is no longer do anything. Maybe that is the piece I'm missing here.

I have to be missing something because the TSM plug has no affect on cooking anything.
Let me know where I am confused or missing information and I'll help with any feedback I can :)

 

[Gary1]

First of all, I am jealous of your sketching ability, this would be much easier if I could show you. The one change to your diagram would be to plug number 5 into number 3. And thank you very much for your effort! I think the part you missed is that the orriginal TSM controller is permanently set to max. (250 degrees) so the controller thinks the temp is too low and constantly provides power to the new female receptical which is where I plug the Auber in for its power, not into a wall outlet. Power starts at the wall, goes into TSM, through the new female receptacle then to the auber which is outputting power to the coil as demanded by the Auber sensor. The TSM controller is still 100% functional except it no longer controls the coil except in that it is providing power for the Auber which is controlling the coil. I just finished the wiring and am making a shelf to mount on the side of the smoker to hold the Auber. Everything seems to work but I have not smoked anything yet but I will shortly and let you know. This is kind of a brilliant way to wire in the Auber and if it works, which I think it will, all credit needs to go to Daveomak.

 

[tallbm]

First of all, I am jealous of your sketching ability, this would be much easier if I could show you. The one change to your diagram would be to plug number 5 into number 3. And thank you very much for your effort! I think the part you missed is that the orriginal TSM controller is permanently set to max. (250 degrees) so the controller thinks the temp is too low and constantly provides power to the new female receptical which is where I plug the Auber in for its power, not into a wall outlet. Power starts at the wall, goes into TSM, through the new female receptacle then to the auber which is outputting power to the coil as demanded by the Auber sensor. The TSM controller is still 100% functional except it no longer controls the coil except in that it is providing power for the Auber which is controlling the coil. I just finished the wiring and am making a shelf to mount on the side of the smoker to hold the Auber. Everything seems to work but I have not smoked anything yet but I will shortly and let you know. This is kind of a brilliant way to wire in the Auber and if it works, which I think it will, all credit needs to go to Daveomak.

I see your thinking.
Did you remove the existing TSM temp probe from the inside of the smoker?
If not the TSM controller will still be reading the temp inside the smoker and will cut power off/on to your female plug when the smoker temp gets near/hits/exceeds 250F.

If you leave the existing TSM temp probe inside the smoker the TSM controller will now cut power off/on to the Auber when the smoker hits 250F.

Also, you probably cannot just disconnect the TSM temp probe from the controller. The few controllers I have worked with will simply register a no temp reading error rather than act like the reading is 0 degrees so you would need to leave the TSM probe wired up but remove it from the inside of the smoker and hope ambient temps don't get higher than any set temp you may choose in the future.

Like you mentioned this stuff is hard to visualize through written messages so let me know if I have explained this well and be sure you test for this specific case :)

 

[Gary1]

Yes, the temp probe is still hooked up and it gives me a readout on the display. I only use the smoker for smoking so I never smoke hotter than 225. Mostly 175. I have a Traeger grill if I want to make a pork but or other higher temp cooking/smoking. My intent with keeping the original controller in the system was to save any high temp safety shutdowns that might occur during a malfunction of a component. I really appreciate your time and assistance.

 

[Steve H]

Now I'm a bit confused. If the heating element is wired to the Auber. Then how is TSM control going to prevent a high temp fault? It would signal a fault. But not shut it down.

 

[Steve H]

Ah, after rereading this. I see how it'll work.

 

[Gary1]

Hi, Steve. Confusing, isn't it. I am sorry if our discussion causes and mental problems. We probably should have issued a hazard warning at the beginning. And yes, any malfunction or over temp will make the TSM controller try to shut down the coil which is the power source for the auber resulting in power shutdown.

 

[JckDanls 07]

Does the TSM control use a relay or SSR to power the heat coil ? Thinking your gonna have troubles if it's SSR controlled... If leaving probe for TSM in the cabinet one would think as the temp starts reaching set point that the TSM controller would start cutting back on voltage ...

 

[BGKYSmoker]

The stock controller has built in SSR.
By pass that original, wire your element directly to a heavy duty power cord with grounded plug and plug right into rear of the Auber PID. Dont use the stock temp probe, use the Auber....Easy Peasy.

 

[tallbm]

Yes, the temp probe is still hooked up and it gives me a readout on the display. I only use the smoker for smoking so I never smoke hotter than 225. Mostly 175. I have a Traeger grill if I want to make a pork but or other higher temp cooking/smoking. My intent with keeping the original controller in the system was to save any high temp safety shutdowns that might occur during a malfunction of a component. I really appreciate your time and assistance.

Ok I think I see all the pieces of the puzzle now.
With your wire job you will be running like the following:

• The Auber at like 175-225F, at most the Auber may overshoot a 225F set temp and hit 235-240F on initial heat up.
• You will have the TSM set to 250F and since the Auber doesn't exceed 240F'ish then the TSM should be providing power the entire time to the Auber which in turn keeps things at 175-225F... power all the time

JckDanls 07 brings up a very valid point that you will want to test around as well. Many controllers will cut down voltage as the temp in the smoker approaches the set temp to avoid overshooting the set temp to much.

Let us know how things work out and if there are too many issues I am 100% positive it would be easy to change your wiring configuration to work with the Auber AND still keep the TSM safety switch mechanisms in the circuit :)

 

[Gary1]

Very interesting point, Jckdanls. The highest internal temp I every smoke to is 165 degrees and I would never set the house temp over 225 degrees. Max temp for the TSM is 250 degrees. Will the 25 degrees be enough to keep full power to the Auber?? It would certainly be much simpler to just hot wire the coil to the Auber like SFLsmkr1 did and I am wondering if that bypasses any safety features. When I think about it, I am not sure what safety features the smoker has to begin with. There is literally nothing inside the TSM controller box except the orriginal controller and a switch for on and off. I expect the Auber would respond in like manner if a component malfunctioned. All I would have to do to go to the easy peasey method is to remove the power cord to the TSM and plug the auber into the wall. I already have the coil wired to the Auber with a male plug. I was not in any case going to rely on the TSM temp probe but I also have not disconnected it.

 

[Gary1]

Tallbm, that is exactly how it should operate. I don't cook in the smoker so I generally start out at 125 degrees for one hour no smoke, 140 degrees for one hour with smoke, 155 degrees for 2 hours with smoke and then finish at 175 no smoke until IT reaches 145 for bacon or 160 for snack sticks. so I am hoping that even if I set the smoker to 225 it won't overshoot too much because I am not coming at it from a dead stop. This basic smoke recipe works for salami, brats, Italian sausage, etc.

 

[tallbm]

Very interesting point, Jckdanls. The highest internal temp I every smoke to is 165 degrees and I would never set the house temp over 225 degrees. Max temp for the TSM is 250 degrees. Will the 25 degrees be enough to keep full power to the Auber?? It would certainly be much simpler to just hot wire the coil to the Auber like SFLsmkr1 did and I am wondering if that bypasses any safety features. When I think about it, I am not sure what safety features the smoker has to begin with. There is literally nothing inside the TSM controller box except the orriginal controller and a switch for on and off. I expect the Auber would respond in like manner if a component malfunctioned. All I would have to do to go to the easy peasey method is to remove the power cord to the TSM and plug the auber into the wall. I already have the coil wired to the Auber with a male plug. I was not in any case going to rely on the TSM temp probe but I also have not disconnected it.

I'll let jckdanls answer for himself but I personally think its a coin flip as to whether or not 25F degrees smoker temp below set temp of TSM will cause the voltage changes. This ALL depends on the programming/algorithm of the TSM controller and these things vary widely! Hell PID controller numbers by definition change such behavior with every value change and every combination of value changes you can enter so its all just a guess as to what the TSM will be doing.

What SFLsmkr1 mention is a much simpler sure fire way to go about the rewire. Less failure points, no voltage issues to address, just less stuff in the mix overall. I whipped up a new image (top image is now, bottom image is old one for reference) for you to help understand how you could EASILY rewire similarly to what SFLsmkr1 mentions while KEEPING any safety switch in the mix that TSM may use.
This is the same idea we follow when rewiring an MES which keeps the safety switch in the mix.

In short you ignore/eliminate everything in the red box.
You take the existing wiring that goes from the TSM SSR to the TSM heating element and unhook it FROM the SSR and instead splice that wire to a plug (green line).
Any safety switch (if one exists) should logically still exist along the wiring from the TSM SSR to the TSM heating element so with this approach you would be keeping the safety switch in the mix and know that safety switches are almost always independent of the controller and the smoker temp probe (switch indicated in black line from heating element to the green line splice point).

If this makes sense let me know and we can walk you through the next magical iteration (spoiler alert: instead of wiring up a new and separate plug, you just wire up to the existing TSM plug bypassing the controller and SSR completely and no need to buy a new plug. In short the green line and plug is just replaced with the TSM plug and wire )

 

[daveomak]

You can solve the temp situation by placing the stock thermocouple outside the smoker... Clip it outside somewhere....

 

[Gary1]

I like this solution a lot and am going with it. Bought a couple pork bellies yesterday and started the 7 day cure. I will let you guys know how the bacon turns out as soon as it is done. Thank you all for your input. It is nice having so much support and experience behind me. I am going to reuse the original power cord for the TSM and connect it directly to the coil, plug it into the Auber and be done with it. Like i've been told, "Easy Peasy".

 

[JckDanls 07]

That's the best route to go.. The Auber should have Alarms that you can set for low and high temps ... I've not had the chance to use/play with a plug and play unit so I'm not positive about the alarm settings... I built my own controller so the PID has these features but also allows you to hook something to those alarm outputs for a visual or audible notification ...