Cooking & Smashing Steel….. ah such a rewarding feeling!!!

[civilsmoker]

So today was the time to build a canister for this years scholarship raffle……. I have high hopes for this one……

The can, 3.25 inches of 1/8 thick with 3/8 end caps, recessed 1/8th in….

There is a 1084/15n20 San mai core in the middle and then a blend of 52100 1/4 bearings and various sizes of 1084a fishhooks, filled with fine 4% nickel 1084 powered steel…..fingers crossed!!!

In they go…..blue flame is cool and low oxygen!!

Getting close to the ideal color…

It still has a bit to go though…..you can still see darkness and a solid look to it….. 15 mins more….

It’s ready….. it looks like it’s melting and translucent….. now that is HOT!!!!!

After about 40 mins in the 2300 degree forge,
Setting the can, ie welding it together under the 12 ton Coal Iron!

The result…. Many hours and more oh smashy!!!

Next up will be grinding off the can and seeing what’s inside……. Double fingers and toes crossed l……

 

[cptnding]

I'll be honest. I have no idea where this is going. Nevertheless I'm really interested in seeing what's inside. Looks like a lot of works. Hope it turns out

 

[tx smoker]

blue flame is cool

I always thought blue flame was hot

Next up will be grinding off the can and seeing what’s inside

I cannot wait to see how this one turns out. I know it's gonna be a long journey but please keep us posted. You have my curiosity piqued.

I'll be honest. I have no idea where this is going.

I believe this is going to be a hand forged Damascus knife when it's done. Gonna make my last smoker build look like folding a paper airplane. Tons of time and work involved with these projects.

Robert

 

[Brokenhandle]

I'm in!

Ryan

 

[JLeonard]

If it turns out anything close to your prior examples its gonna be GREAT!
I'm in awe of you guys that are talented like this. Look forward to the finished product.

Jim

 

[SmokinEdge]

Looks like a great start. I’m in.

 

[civilsmoker]

I'll be honest. I have no idea where this is going. Nevertheless I'm really interested in seeing what's inside. Looks like a lot of works. Hope it turns out

CPT, what Robert says below. "If" the billet turns out as planned it will have a combination of layered Damascus clade with random canister bevels.... I will take all the hope I can get!

I always thought blue flame was hot

I cannot wait to see how this one turns out. I know it's gonna be a long journey but please keep us posted. You have my curiosity piqued.

I believe this is going to be a hand forged Damascus knife when it's done. Gonna make my last smoker build look like folding a paper airplane. Tons of time and work involved with these projects.

Robert

Thanks Robert....That blue is also an oxygen deficient environment, it really helps cut down on forge scale, the cost is more $$ in propane. I can save a billet if its not sealed or no flux is being used.....

As long as I can fold the paper with the press then I'm in...... Steel is the new paper!

I'm in!

Ryan

You might have to hang on.....

If it turns out anything close to your prior examples its gonna be GREAT!
I'm in awe of you guys that are talented like this. Look forward to the finished product.

Jim

Many thanks Jim! I have my fingers crossed for sure.

Looks like a great start. I’m in.

Thanks SE, I take my time with these cause if you get complacent, then well, you get to have a do over......

 

[Winterrider]

watching

 

[civilsmoker]

watching

These are a slow burner (ie low and slow).....so you might need a 6-pack with the popcorn ....LOL

 

[hooked on smoke]

Very interested in seeing what comes of this.

 

[Gonna Smoke]

I'm in!

Ryan

Me, too!

 

[jcam222]

I'll be honest. I have no idea where this is going. Nevertheless I'm really interested in seeing what's inside. Looks like a lot of works. Hope it turns out

Lol you and me both!! I don’t know what the flux is happening but knowing civilsmoker its going to be cool. In for the ride

 

[civilsmoker]

Very interested in seeing what comes of this.

Will share the good and even the bad as it progresses.

Me, too!

Added to the mailing list!

Lol you and me both!! I don’t know what the flux is happening but knowing civilsmoker its going to be cool. In for the ride

Thanks.... canister Damascus has a high % rate of failure so it's fun stuff when it works, if not is a good way to put a days' worth of work and a 100 bills in steel and propane in the round file....LOL!

 

[Brokenhandle]

Brought a friend and more popcorn!

Ryan

 

[mosparky]

Can't wait to see how this one turns out. I've seen some really cool looking ball bearing pattern weld, but never with fish hooks in the mix.
I'm a little surprised you opted not to use a sleeve of paper or coating of liquid paper in the canister to aid in separating the canister from the billet and reduce oxygen in the canister.

 

[babydocsmoke]

I've always thought knife forging was really cool. Especially the Damascus style and the cool patterns that come out with the dye process. Here's to hoping there's lots of pics!!

 

[noboundaries]

Who needs Forged in Fire or YouTube's Shurap. We've got Civilsmoker! Let the grinding begin!

 

[civilsmoker]

View attachment 666174

Brought a friend and more popcorn!

Ryan

Yea, I appreciate the company Ryan!

Can't wait to see how this one turns out. I've seen some really cool looking ball bearing pattern weld, but never with fish hooks in the mix.
I'm a little surprised you opted not to use a sleeve of paper or coating of liquid paper in the canister to aid in separating the canister from the billet and reduce oxygen in the canister.

Thanks sparky! I’m really excited to see the results as well!

There are a number of approaches to canisters and a certain popular ABS MS really show cases the whiteout, but several go without…. If you calculate the thickness of the 1/8” can over say 14-16 inches the mild steel is only 1/32” or less cause of burn off after it is drawn out, ie an easy grind off. The 1/8 inch can with 3/8 caps is another respected ABS MS’s technique that has less chances of failure. I will note that the whiteout ABS MS also notes not using it as a way to reduce failure risk.

As any fyi, I don’t flux my layered billets either, I just put a weld around the seams. I am going to try a kerosene dip/weld after this knife since I run an oxygen deficient forge…. Many smiths have gone this route recently

I've always thought knife forging was really cool. Especially the Damascus style and the cool patterns that come out with the dye process. Here's to hoping there's lots of pics!!

Making Damascus is therapeutic, it’s hard to explain the addictive feeling of setting a weld……. It just grabs me! I have high hopes for this one and will take many a pics as things go!

Who needs Forged in Fire or YouTube's Shurap. We've got Civilsmoker! Let the grinding begin!

Ha, I’m just a lot slower than 3 hours or 4 days for that matter! The sparks will fly soon!

 

[jcam222]

Can you describe this process in a Damascus for dummies version for me?

 

[civilsmoker]

Can you describe this process in a Damascus for dummies version for me?

Sure thing, in simple terms you are heating steel of different composition to a temperature hot enough to allow them to fuse (weld) together under pressure.

Example:
Here a stack of two different high carbon steels 1084 and 15n20

The layers are stacked together and then heated to a welding temperature....

Note that when welding the surfaces each piece of steel needs to be protected from oxidation because that prevents the steel from welding. The most common way is the use of flux (aka borax), it turns into a corrosive fluid when heated and coats the surface, which prevents oxygen from getting to the surface of the steel and it also "melts" any oxidation that is there....

On alternate to flux is sealing it from the open air, ie welding the pieces together and this keeps the surface from seeing any additional oxygen other than what is in the little space that is between the layers. This oxygen isn't enough to keep if from welding.... IE the billet (stack of steel) above was welded all around like this.

the third way is to hold the stack together and soak it in kerosene and then put it in a oxygen deficient forge, ie this can be risky but many smiths use it very successfully, ie my forge is oxygen deficient, ie you can actually get a slight "propane" smell of un-burned propane being pushed out of the chamber by what does burn.


Now, once the stacked steel is hot enough to weld it is put under pressure to facilitate the welding. The pressure can be a hammer or a press of some kind (see the flat plates on the press below)

The billet is worked, ie "drawn out" with rounded plates on the press, anvil horn and hammer, or a rounded hammer face. Once it is all drawn out it is shapped, cut, or ground to shape and then the knife bevels are ground in. The steel is then "etched" in acid and lightly sanded to reveal the individual layers from the billet. Note that the different steel composition causes a different color "etch" from the acid.

Note that the darker lines are the 1084 steel and the shinier are the 15n20 steel. The shininess is cause by a higher nickel content in the 15n20 composition the brighter lines are the edges are cause by the acid raising up the edge so when sanded (2000 grit) it polishes the 15n20 edge more.

In the can above rather than using "plate" steel, pieces (ball bearings, fish hooks, etc.) are placed in a non-hardenable (mild or low carbon steel) steel can, along with powdered steel to fill in all the gaps. The can keeps it all together, prevents oxygen to allow a weld to happen inside the can. Once the can is drawn out the mild steel is ground off revealing the pattern the parts a pieces created. It should be noted that a medium (usually something with Titanium oxide, ie whiteout, or white paint) can be used to line the can which will prevent the can from welding to the contents inside, this allows the can to be peeled off from the high carbon steel and then you work on the billet from there. Its just another variation of how to keep the materials from oxidizing and separated from the mild steel.

Note that in the can above, there are 3 pieces of plate steel in the middle, ie a 1084 core with 15n20 on either side, this should create a dark cutting edge with a shiny wavy line/band above the edge. Next the bearings which are 52100 steel and the fish hooks which are 1084a steel. The 1084 steel with 4% nickel is basically 15n20 steel in a powered form. However, the composition of them all is different enough that when etched it will create a random pattern of darks and lights, ie creates a unique piece that can never be duplicated again.