Cooking & Smashing Steel….. ah such a rewarding feeling!!!

  • Some of the links on this forum allow SMF, at no cost to you, to earn a small commission when you click through and make a purchase. Let me know if you have any questions about this.
SMF is reader-supported. When you buy through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission.

civilsmoker

Master of the Pit
Original poster
OTBS Member
★ Lifetime Premier ★
Thread starter
Jan 27, 2015
4,769
6,186
Idaho
jcam222 jcam222 Here is an example of just 3 layers (san mai), 1084 core with 15n20 outer.
SanMai.jpg


So the hope with the billet above is to have the san mai design with the random pattern bevels, this can be done by making the canister, making flat pieces and then making a new stack to weld up, but I am attempting to do that all in the can together in one operation.....
 
Last edited:

hooked on smoke

Smoking Fanatic
Aug 24, 2013
548
195
Southern California.
Sure thing, in simple terms you are heating steel of different composition to a temperature hot enough to allow them to fuse (weld) together under pressure.

Example:
Here a stack of two different high carbon steels 1084 and 15n20
View attachment 666195

The layers are stacked together and then heated to a welding temperature.... View attachment 666196
Note that when welding the surfaces each piece of steel needs to be protected from oxidation because that prevents the steel from welding. The most common way is the use of flux (aka borax), it turns into a corrosive fluid when heated and coats the surface, which prevents oxygen from getting to the surface of the steel and it also "melts" any oxidation that is there....

On alternate to flux is sealing it from the open air, ie welding the pieces together and this keeps the surface from seeing any additional oxygen other than what is in the little space that is between the layers. This oxygen isn't enough to keep if from welding.... IE the billet (stack of steel) above was welded all around like this.

the third way is to hold the stack together and soak it in kerosene and then put it in a oxygen deficient forge, ie this can be risky but many smiths use it very successfully, ie my forge is oxygen deficient, ie you can actually get a slight "propane" smell of un-burned propane being pushed out of the chamber by what does burn.


Now, once the stacked steel is hot enough to weld it is put under pressure to facilitate the welding. The pressure can be a hammer or a press of some kind (see the flat plates on the press below)
View attachment 666197

The billet is worked, ie "drawn out" with rounded plates on the press, anvil horn and hammer, or a rounded hammer face. Once it is all drawn out it is shapped, cut, or ground to shape and then the knife bevels are ground in. The steel is then "etched" in acid and lightly sanded to reveal the individual layers from the billet. Note that the different steel composition causes a different color "etch" from the acid.

View attachment 666198

Note that the darker lines are the 1084 steel and the shinier are the 15n20 steel. The shininess is cause by a higher nickel content in the 15n20 composition the brighter lines are the edges are cause by the acid raising up the edge so when sanded (2000 grit) it polishes the 15n20 edge more.

In the can above rather than using "plate" steel, pieces (ball bears, fish hooks, etc.) are placed in a non-hardenable (mild or low carbon steel) steel can, along with powdered steel to fill in all the gaps. The can keeps it all together, prevents oxygen to allow a weld to happen inside the can. Once the can is drawn out the mild steel is ground off revealing the pattern the parts a pieces created. It should be noted that a medium (usually something with Titanium oxide, ie without, or white paint) can be used to line the can which will prevent the can from welding to the contents inside, this allows the can to be peeled off from the high carbon steel and then you work on the billet from there. Its just another variation of how to keep the materials from oxidizing and separated from the mild steel.

Note that in the can above, there are 3 pieces of plate steel in the middle, ie a 1084 core with 15n20 on either side, this should create a dark cutting edge with a shiny wavy line/band above the edge. Next the bearings which are 52100 steel and the fish hooks which are 1084a steel. The 1084 steel with 4% nickel is basically 15n20 steel in a powered form. However, the composition of them all is different enough that when etched it will create a random pattern of darks and lights, ie creates a unique piece that can never be duplicated again.
Very cool. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Watching this for sure!
 

bill1

Master of the Pit
Apr 25, 2015
1,703
763
That's a gorgeous knife. Don't let tsa get it at the airport. I lose all my fave pocket knives that way
 

civilsmoker

Master of the Pit
Original poster
OTBS Member
★ Lifetime Premier ★
Thread starter
Jan 27, 2015
4,769
6,186
Idaho
Thank you for that detailed explanation! It's fascinating, and I appreciate the time you took to write that up for us.
You are welcome sigmo! Giving the real story vs the “tv” version…..lol!
Very cool. Thanks for the detailed explanation. Watching this for sure!
Thanks h on smoke! And you are welcome glad to share!
From watching Forged In Fire I actually know what you’re doing! (Id like to give it a whirl sometime). Good luck, hope it turns out well.
Thanks RT! It’s always a nail biter till you see what’s under the scale!
That's a gorgeous knife. Don't let tsa get it at the airport. I lose all my fave pocket knives that way
Thanks bill! Oh trust me NO tsa agent is going to even think about it!!! The boy and me hand hammered the San mai one so it’s not going anywhere! The other one went at an raffle to support rural Idaho scholarship fund
What a beautiful craft!
Many thanks doc! It’s also an addicting one!
 
Last edited:

civilsmoker

Master of the Pit
Original poster
OTBS Member
★ Lifetime Premier ★
Thread starter
Jan 27, 2015
4,769
6,186
Idaho
The last couple days work was to fab up a set of prototype quick change dies holders and to build a “softer” drawing out set of dies.
A1BD245F-8385-4A1D-8C54-13BE0C2090C8.jpeg


Also fabed up some ram stops as well, you can see them in the pic between the frame rails. I made up a set of shims that can adjust in 1/16 inch adjustments to get an exact press depth and therefore billet thickness….
40900268-1311-4F5B-8395-FBEAEE86A73C.jpeg


Used the new dies above to draw out the billet more and to true up the thickness, I’ll post a pic (I forgot to take one) before I start to clean it up.

The quick change dies holders were magic! I’m going to get some 3/4 inch solid stock to machine a set from mono steel…I’m also going to send the details to Coil Iron to share for other press users benefit
 

civilsmoker

Master of the Pit
Original poster
OTBS Member
★ Lifetime Premier ★
Thread starter
Jan 27, 2015
4,769
6,186
Idaho
Happened to go out to the shop tonight so took a better pic of the quick change holders……
7B37DA47-B693-4237-9C8A-23EDC33BAD95.jpeg

I’m looking forward to the mono steel milled versions….just fun milling things up…

Oh here is the billet, it’s a full 17 inches, started with 3.25, ie stretched out over 5 times the length, you can see the ram stops and the aggressive drawing out dies (the 1/2 round ones). These make the patterns really wavy….see how they compare to the ones I just made up….
04C7AC96-93F9-42C9-839D-5797398DCBA5.jpeg


This shows the thickness and the uniformity aided bay the stops…..just money!!
677C09F9-259E-468B-B2ED-1F7DD9AE2232.jpeg
 
  • Like
Reactions: NefariousTrashMan
SmokingMeatForums.com is reader supported and as an Amazon Associate, we may earn commissions from qualifying purchases.

Latest posts

Hot Threads