Cold Smoked Loin ~ Finishing in Sous Vide?

[thirdeye]

Today I'm on day 2 of a cold smoked loin ham cured with the daveomak injection method for 13 days. The meat temp has remained in the mid-30°'s the entire time, and my total smoke time will be 24 hours. Tonight I plan on holding in the refrigerator until Wednesday morning. I'll have plenty of flavor on this loin, so I'm considering finishing by starting in a 180° oven to build some color. Normally I slowly bring up the internal to 145°-150°, rest 30 minutes, then ice bath the temp back down <40, then mellow in the fridge for a day or two. I don't need much color at all as I generally trim the heavy areas of rind anyways.

I'm wondering about moving the loins to a 147° sous vide bath after I get some color. The Doug Baldwin charts are showing a minimum of 3.25 hours of SV time. I realize I have the effects of Cure #1 on my side, but do want a ready-to-eat product. Comments??

 

[atomicsmoke]

Pork is safe at 145F when cooked in the oven. Why 150F?

Why not SV at 145F max?

 

[atomicsmoke]

After a 2md read i am not sure i ubderstand your plan: is it cold smoke then oven then SV?

 

[thirdeye]

Pork is safe at 145F when cooked in the oven. Why 150F?

Why not SV at 145F max?

My loin sections are about 12" long, the smaller diameter end will be in the 150° range when the other end is in the 143° range when using an oven finish. Using sous vide, the entire loin will be the same internal, so that is one advantage I'm looking at.
I picked 147° because that is the temp that the time plateaued at 3.25 hours on the pasteurization chart. Using 145° would not be a big deal either.

After a 2md read i am not sure i ubderstand your plan: is it cold smoke then oven then SV?

No. I have 3 options for finishing 'to temp' so I have a ready-to-eat product, which would be hot smoke, or oven or SV. I'm thinking oven for maybe an hour and mainly for color. Then SV for 3 hours+ to insure it's fully cooked.

 

[zwiller]

I did something similar to what you are contemplating and did not care for my results. I did 12hrs warm smoke 110F then SV a few hours at 140F. Texture was great, but flavor was not what I was after. Not inedible just kinda off. Not much "ham" flavor and kinda tasted like smoked turkey. I had high hopes...

 

[SmokinEdge]

I have not done anything cured in SV, and likely won’t. I have done a chuck and some St. Louis ribs smoked then SV. I did not care for the smoke taste after Sous vide. Maybe SV then smoke, but I don’t think the meat would pick up much smoke after being cooked. I could be wrong though.

 

[thirdeye]

I did something similar to what you are contemplating and did not care for my results. I did 12hrs warm smoke 110F then SV a few hours at 140F. Texture was great, but flavor was not what I was after. Not inedible just kinda off. Not much "ham" flavor and kinda tasted like smoked turkey. I had high hopes...

I have not done anything cured in SV, and likely won’t. I have done a chuck and some St. Louis ribs smoked then SV. I did not care for the smoke taste after Sous vide. Maybe SV then smoke, but I don’t think the meat would pick up much smoke after being cooked. I could be wrong though.

Interesting observations guys. The flavor of loin and shoulder hams with this injectable brine is so pleasant I would hate to lose that. Maybe the off flavor after SV was because the smokiness is trapped in the bag verses being able to gas out when baking. You know how the whole house smells great when you are cooking a ham in the oven...

I have cured turkey and chicken breasts in Pop's brine, then into a warm/hot smoke for 4 hours and a sous vide finish that came out great, but these loins will have 24 hours of cold smoke.

 

[SmokinEdge]

To me, the smoke gets watered down, for lack of a better explanation. It’s there, but it almost tastes fake, in a way. Not exactly bad, just not good smoke. Btw, Dave’s ham is seriously great ham. I’m in that “best city ham I’ve ever had” camp.

 

[SmokinEdge]

I think it has to do with the meat getting wet in the bag( juices) that plays funny with the smoke.

 

[thirdeye]

To me, the smoke gets watered down, for lack of a better explanation. It’s there, but it almost tastes fake, in a way. Not exactly bad, just not good smoke. Btw, Dave’s ham is seriously great ham. I’m in that “best city ham I’ve ever had” camp.

You got that right, and I'm trying my best to push the flavor just a little more 'country'.

I think it has to do with the meat getting wet in the bag( juices) that plays funny with the smoke.

Now this is what I was trying to explain, you said it better. It's making it's own liquid smoke?

 

[SmokinEdge]

Now this is what I was trying to explain, you said it better. It's making it's own liquid smoke?

That probably explains my experience the best. Some strange version of liquid smoke. I’m not a huge fan either.

 

[pushok2018]

I cooked pork loin many times, 3-4 pieces at time for last two years.... Dry cure it for 12-14 days with Cure 1, salt, BP, a lot of Garlick and paprika. Any spice you like can be used at this point. After curing process I used two methods:
1. SV at 150-152 till IM is 150-151 and then hot smoked at about the same temperature for 6 hours.
2. Hot smoked loins at 170F for 6 hours and then SV at 150-152 till IM is 150-153.
Never noticed huge difference in the taste using both methods. All who tried the final product loved it a lot. Here is a pick of it....

 

[zwiller]

To me, the smoke gets watered down, for lack of a better explanation. It’s there, but it almost tastes fake, in a way. Not exactly bad, just not good smoke.

Man, that is a great description! Totally agree. It IS sorta fake tasting. I expected the opposite and thought I was on to something. daveomak warned me that canning (and SV likely) increases the smoke flavor and honestly did not believe but he was right.

We all have our own goals. Myself, I am trying to get a black forest deli taste but am fumbling in the dark. I plan to try double and possibly triple warm cook smokes next time.

 

[BarberMeatHead]

Would you mind sharing the injection method you mentioned? I'm a new guy here so don't be angry for the laziness.
Yesterday I warm smoked few loins i had in wet brine. Pushed the temps of a smoke to 130-150F for 2 1/2 hours and after cooking it in vac seal for 1hr @ 170F they came out dry. Any way to keep the juices inside the ham? I'm discouraged to pouch them directly in the water because of the loss of the taste , any experiences with it would it help?
Correct me if im wrong , but 30 ° is -1C how can you retain such a low temperature while smoking given that you live in america and temperatures like that are rare events?

 

[thirdeye]

Would you mind sharing the injection method you mentioned? I'm a new guy here so don't be angry for the laziness.
Yesterday I warm smoked few loins i had in wet brine. Pushed the temps of a smoke to 130-150F for 2 1/2 hours and after cooking it in vac seal for 1hr @ 170F they came out dry. Any way to keep the juices inside the ham? I'm discouraged to pouch them directly in the water because of the loss of the taste , any experiences with it would it help?
Correct me if im wrong , but 30 ° is -1C how can you retain such a low temperature while smoking given that you live in america and temperatures like that are rare events?

170° is too high. Using a traditional brine, or injecting a traditional brine or lite brine is much better than un-brined meat. I take the internal to 140° and it will creep up a few degrees after it's out of the smoker.

I use a pellet tube as a smoke generator, they do make some heat.... but on a cool day my smoker stays pretty cool and so does the meat. I'm at 5400' in the Rocky Mountains, so fall, winter and spring can see some cold temps.

Here is the link to a long thread, on the injectable ham method and I detail a shoulder picnic, a shoulder butt and a loin with the same process. Just keep reading and you can see all three.

I Made a "daveomak" Ham Using a Picnic Shoulder, a Loin, & a Boneless Butt.

After reading through THIS thread I had to give this technique a try, I'm a big fan of injecting for flavor, and have used injectable brines and cures with good success, so Dave's method for injecting a curing solution was right up my alley. I followed the recipe exactly and stayed very close...

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