Belly Up!

[chefrob]

i have 2 scales........one for cure and spices and a meat scale up to 22#'s. hmmmmmm ...........grinder & stuffer? food city needs to have a butt sale and we are all over it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ak1]

If you have a problem with a discussion between Me, Al, and best of all (bbally), which is the kind of serious discussion that is good for people to read, just ignore it, or read it. It's your prerogative. We do these now & then.

I'm sure many people learn a lot from these discussions, because I know I learn a lot from Al & Bob myself.

REPLY: " I'm sorry, I guess I didn't realize this was a private conversation."

As for my being condescending, all of my posts were about being careful using cure #1.

None of them said cure #1 itself was unsafe.

None of them said anyone should not use cure #1.

REPLY: " No, the condescending part was your last few sentences saying I could call the FDA, or USDA, or Morton's or... to tell them that the formulation was wrong. (Which BTW I never said.)"

Now your comment comes in and actually tries to tell people that Tender Quick is unsafe, due to the amount of nitrites/nitrates in it. If someone doesn't stop such a statement quick, people might actually believe that. Nobody else replied to you. I guess because of my avid use of TQ, they figured I would handle it. I replied to your attack on TQ the best I knew how. I don't consider what I said to be condescending---It was exactly what was needed to inform others that if there was something wrong with TQ, as you stated, they would not be selling it.

REPLY: " Again I never said that TQ is unsafe. What I said was that because of the Nitrite/Nitrate ratio, I would be more wary of using it as it is not a standard cure."

Now coming back & telling us how you think it is a very good cure, and the fact that you can't substitute it for other cures, doesn't change your original statement about a problem with their ingredients.

REPLY: "This would be true if I had actually said that there is a problem with Morton's ingredients. It's most likely a very good cure as long as you follow Morton's recipes."

If that isn't what you meant, perhaps you should have made that comment a little more explanatory, so people would know what you meant, because I still read it as saying "Because of the wrong amount of nitrites/nitrates in TQ, people have to be more careful using TQ than using other cures". 

REPLY: "Again, where did I say they were the wrong amounts?"

Oh yeah, before I forget, a statement like, "Basically, if you're happy with TQ that's fine. But not everyone feels the same." should only be used against me if I said I wouldn't use other cures. If you read my posts, you will see that I often say I would use Cure # 1 cures, and I never said others should not use other cures. I would use them in a wet/brine cure method, so I don't have to worry about the distribution problem I see. That problem being either a real possible problem, or a figment of my imagination, is still a problem in my mind.

REPLY: "I stand by what I said. Because of the conversions involved, not everyone is comfortable using TQ."

Bear

 

[pit 4 brains]

Ok, it just came out of the smokehuse. I took it to 140 to aid in slicing. Do the bellies normally distort when hung? Another question, do you all remove the rind right after smoking or after cooling? I think I'm going to leave it on for now and try to take some off tomorrow to render down. I like a little on my bacon, now I have to pass it by the wife and kids.. Sliced pics tomorrow..

 

[alblancher]

I would think 140 is to high a final temp.  I can't remember the exact temp that fat renders but at140 you may have cooked a bunch of the fat out.  Did you have a puddle of grease under the bacon when you pulled it?

 

[pit 4 brains]

I would think 140 is to high a final temp.  I can't remember the exact temp that fat renders but at140 you may have cooked a bunch of the fat out.  Did you have a puddle of grease under the bacon when you pulled it?

It was dripping quite a bit. From what i have read and witnessed, fat starts to render between 80 and 90 degrees. I have cold smoked BBB but i found it it was terribly hard to slice on my slicer unless it was frozen. It took me all day to slice up my last batch. When I take it to 140, it slices well at refer temp. I cold smoked this batch for hours before i kicked on the propane and ramped up the heat. My smokehouse was running around 195 when i was bringing it up to temp.

 

 

[ak1]

IMO, you should not have compared this to BBB. Don't forget, belly bacon has much more fat, and fat doesn't freeze like muscle tissue does. I find that I can take a slab of belly bacon out of the freezer & slice it, where I can't do that with cuts that are mostly muscle tissue.  I think Al may be right, you may have cooked a lot of the fat out. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but what you may find is that the bacon may fry up quicker than it normally would.
 

It was dripping quite a bit. From what i have read and witnessed, fat starts to render between 80 and 90 degrees. I have cold smoked BBB but i found it it was terribly hard to slice on my slicer unless it was frozen. It took me all day to slice up my last batch. When I take it to 140, it slices well at refer temp. I cold smoked this batch for hours before i kicked on the propane and ramped up the heat. My smokehouse was running around 195 when i was bringing it up to temp.

 

 

[alblancher]

If you where running your smokehouse at 195 you simply precooked the bacon.  I'm sure it will still be delicious just not what you are used to when you think of bacon.  I slice a lot of bacon and it really should be in the freezer for a couple of hours before slicing.  Like AK said belly doesn't freeze as the same way as leaner cuts.

Your bacon looks nice, just cooked a bit.

Al 

 

[pit 4 brains]

IMO, you should not have compared this to BBB. Don't forget, belly bacon has much more fat, and fat doesn't freeze like muscle tissue does. I find that I can take a slab of belly bacon out of the freezer & slice it, where I can't do that with cuts that are mostly muscle tissue.  I think Al may be right, you may have cooked a lot of the fat out. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but what you may find is that the bacon may fry up quicker than it normally would.
 

If it cooks a tad faster it will be a good thing. My kids tug at my shorts while I'm cooking my bbb since I cook it so long. Like I said, this is my first run at a belly, so It's all learning now. I am gaining more control and confidence with my smokehouse though.

Thanks for the replies AK and Al..
 

 

[chefrob]

pete, i have found that fat starts to render around 125 and thats where i take my BBB. if ya ever need help slicing anything i'll be glad to help.........i do get paid in bacon!

 

[chefrob]

......and good lookin bacon btw!

 

[ak1]

You are most welcome. Let us know how it turned out.

 

[Bearcarver]

Looks real nice, but I agree on your temps (195˚) being a bit too high.

Out of all of the different internal temps I have removed belly Bacons at, I liked the ones between 120˚ and 128˚ the best.

I remove the rind before I do anything, if my butcher didn't remove it already.

I never hung any of my bellies, but I would suspect that a lot of the distortion is from rendering a bit more fat than usual.

All of that being said, I'll bet it tastes absolutely magnificent !!!!!

Bear

 

[SmokinAl]

Man all I gotta say is this was one intense thread!

 

[Bearcarver]

Man all I gotta say is this was one intense thread!

We don't want you getting bored on us!

Bear

 

[pit 4 brains]

Man all I gotta say is this was one intense thread!

No kidding! I didn't mean to throw fuel on any fire but there is obviously some different opinions out there, which is good.

I tried to slice some this morning but my slicer knife is just to darn dull and i get alot of pulldown. I need to get some new stones and get it rigged up. I may have to move my chute a little closer to the knife as well. That being said, I cut a few slices for this mornings breakfast, fried it up and presented it to the fam. They liked it, it produced some good rendered fat , and had a nice sweet flavor to it. Now don't bust my spheres about pics 'cause i had a hungry crowd and a dirty slicer to deal with. I'm gonna hand slice a hunk for the week and post up pics of that.

As for the learning curve, there's no doubt I shouldn't have raised the temp so high. I like to run my bbb to 140 but it just isn't the thing to do with belly. It cold smoked for hours between 88 and 95 degrees. The bacon IT was 88 when I ramped up the smoker heat. I guess I shoulda left it alone. Ohh well.

Comparing the cost of butts to bellies, I think I'll be stickin to the BBB for a while! Besides, If i have an extra butt in the freezer, I can always do some pulled pork or smoked but or even sausage.

More pics to follow...

 

 

[chefrob]

Comparing the cost of butts to bellies, I think I'll be stickin to the BBB for a while!

and that's why i have not gotten to do bellies yet...............

 

[pit 4 brains]

and that's why i have not gotten to do bellies yet...............

If you see butts on sale, please let me know. I don't get their circulars and I don't have the time to check all the stores for promos online. I would like to bank up the deep freeze with some butts.
 

 

[chefrob]

If you see butts on sale, please let me know. I don't get their circulars and I don't have the time to check all the stores for promos online. I would like to bank up the deep freeze with some butts.
 

you got it pete!

 

[alblancher]

Bellies aren't to expensive if you buy them by the case of three.  Your local butcher should be able to help you out.  I recently paid $ 1.60 lb for unskinned.  I think it was about 60 lbs in a case.

Al

 

[pit 4 brains]

Bellies aren't to expensive if you buy them by the case of three.  Your local butcher should be able to help you out.  I recently paid $ 1.60 lb for unskinned.  I think it was about 60 lbs in a case.

Al

Maybe that price in LA, but not here. We used to have more livestock here in the valley but urban growth has reduced it to scattered dairies and one or two chicken/egg farms.