Asking for possible improvements

[Jordy]

Hi there!

I'm a graduating Industrial Design student who loves to grill and smoke meat. I've doing it since I was a kid. I'm designing a pellet smoker for my graduation project. The focus will lie on the system that sends and burns the pellets. I recently got into pellet grilling and I really start to like it.

I'm from The Netherlands and want to introduce pellet grilling to our grilling ''community'' here. The best outcome would be a better affordable product with the same or maybe even better quality. Affordability is great, but should not compensate for the quality ofcourse. Quality will be the priority.

Could you guys give me some advice at what could be improved/done better? What would you like to have added or changed, in general or specifically. What are some major (or minor) problems that could use a new approach, features, construction, controller adjustments. Graduating with a innovative product that lies in the world I have passion for would be the best.

I hope not to bother you with this kind of topic, I genuine want to make a quality product.

Kind regards,
Jordy

 

[phathead69]

Besides who responds here you can go to pellet smoker section and I bet you will find all kinds of pro and cons to work from.

 

[SonnyE]

Hi Jordy, Welcome to SMF!

When I was going to buy my first ever manufactured Smoker, I seriously considered a pellet smoker.
What ultimately turned me away from a pellet feed system was the temperature control. I could not find one that could operate at low internal temperatures. Not low enough to smoke things like nuts, or other "cold smoking" type items.
If your new design could actually incorporate a burn pot that can offer truely low temperature smoking, ambient level chamber temperatures, I think you could have a new design.
Also, quality stainless steel construction so it would last for a long, long time and withstand outdoor exposures. Something that can set outdoors year round, and still work.

Good luck with your project! ;)

 

[Jordy]

phathead69

Thanks for your respond. Yes, I've been reading a bunch of topics in the Pellet Smokers section and found useful information so far. Yet, I think direct answers from people who feel like responding would be even more useful! Regards.

 

[Jordy]

Just a last bump. Perhaps some other people would like to share their expertise. I would appriciate it! :)

 

[daveomak]

SonnyE and I are on the same page on this idea...

Design in an air inlet that would lower the temperature while maintaining the burn..... Something similar has been designed into our reverse flow smokers...


The upper air inlet adds fresh air... 1, it moves heat from the firebox to the cook chamber to make it more fuel efficient... 2, it can cool the cook chamber and stabilize cooking temperatures across the cook surface... 3 , in smoldering fires, it can add additional oxygen to assist in the combustion of creosote...

 

[bregent]

An additional air inlet will not work if traditional pellet grill concepts are used. Pellet grills are semi pressurized with a fan - additional opening will become exhaust ports, not inlets. You could add an additional fan to bring in more air, but then you're just exacerbating one of the existing problems - not enough smoke flavor which is partly due to dilution with fresh air.

The main issue that we see most often regarding pellet grills is the reduced amount of smoke flavor and aroma in foods as compared with other smoker types. This is due to several things: The firepot burns hot, which oxidized much of the aromatics in the smoke, and the smoke is diluted with fresh air, and forced by a fan which does not give it much time to settle on the food.
Some mfgs have attempted to remedy this by pulsing the fan - which temporarily reduces the fire pot temp, as well as the airflow.

In order to cold smoke, you'd need to GREATLY reduce the fire pot temp, or locate it very remotely. To lower the temp, you might get away with running the fan very intermittently so the pellets smolder very slowly. I think that would be hard to accomplish - making sure they stay lit, but not get too hot. Good luck with your project.

 

[ravenclan]

there needs to be a better way to "deliver" the pellets. i think less moving parts the better. also the electrical should be kept to a minimum. the less wire the cheaper to make, plus again less to brake down during use. better heat control which is hard to do since you are "heating" pellets. i can handle a 10-15 degree swing but not a 30-50 degree. maybe add a plate inside the chamber for run off of fat and also to help regulate heat or help "store" heat while cooking

 

[daveomak]

Bregent, morning.... Have you tried it ??? Is there an open exhaust on a pellet grill now ???
The fire in the fire pot is a totally separate function... Pellets in, air in... Then there is a circulatory air flow to move the heat.. That circulatory air flow just needs to be increased...

 

[tallbm]

Hi there and welcome!

Congratulations on graduating!

I don't own a pellet smoker but would it be possible or make sense to separate heat generation from smoke generation?
I do this with my MES electric smoker and the use of the A-MazeN-Pellet Smoker tray and a mailbox mod.

I would imagine the same separation of duties could be achieved with a pellet smoker where upon initial feed the Smoker Generator section gets filled and lit to generate smoke.
The auger then also feeds to a separate area for the heat generation.

Yes this might be more moving parts and areas etc but it could solve a lot of issues with heat generation being separate from smoke generation. The idea works well with my electric setup :D

Just some food for thought as I am sure such features would be a definite increase in Quality but probably also an increase in materials, components, and price point :)

 

[SonnyE]

I don't own a pellet smoker but would it be possible or make sense to separate heat generation from smoke generation?
I do this with my MES electric smoker and the use of the A-MazeN-Pellet Smoker tray and a mailbox mod.

Tall, That is a pellet smoker, my man. :)
And perszackery why I gravitated to a MES and an AMNPS tray. ;)

And also why I fiend away from a pellet grill. Advertisers have confused folks making them think a pellet grill is a smoker.
It isn't. It it the guts of a pellet heating furnace, grafted into a chamber people stick food in to cook it.
Run it inefficiently and it makes smoke. But they never were a Smoker.
Advertisers think any smoke makes something a smoker. Wrong.

Joe Traeger developed his idea from pellet heating units in 1985. Patented his idea in 1986. Then began selling Traeger Grills in 1988.
Then the ad writers turned everything into Smokers. According to their daffynition, a brush fire is a smoker, and cavemen invented smokers.

 

[texomakid]

Tall, That is a pellet smoker, my man. :)
And perszackery why I gravitated to a MES and an AMNPS tray. ;)

And also why I fiend away from a pellet grill. Advertisers have confused folks making them think a pellet grill is a smoker.
It isn't. It it the guts of a pellet heating furnace, grafted into a chamber people stick food in to cook it.
Run it inefficiently and it makes smoke. But they never were a Smoker.
Advertisers think any smoke makes something a smoker. Wrong.

Joe Traeger developed his idea from pellet heating units in 1985. Patented his idea in 1986. Then began selling Traeger Grills in 1988.
Then the ad writers turned everything into Smokers. According to their daffynition, a brush fire is a smoker, and cavemen invented smokers.

Hey man, Cavemen need some credit here!
Pellet Grill, Pellet smoker, Pellet cooker, Pellet oven..............
Call any of them what you want, they're all nothing more than a form of oven. Doesn't matter if it's producing heat from wood, pellets, charcoal, gas, or electricity they are nothing more than ovens. If you're cooking with any form of wood or burning wood to generate smoke it can be considered a smoker. I personally think most people over smoke their meat but to each their own. I've done this (over smoked) on more than one occasion and Creosote isn't a good flavor profile.
A pellet grill is not a traditional smoker but if you cook with wood (and sawdust is wood) and it produces a smoke flavor (and they do) it can be considered a smoker (IMO.)
A MES or Bradley that burns wood chips in any form is a smoker.
Nothing will every replace the golden standard of a stick burner/charcoal.

But to the point, most owners of pellets grills/smokers would like a way to generate a bit more smoke flavor without the creosote affect and/or flavor. I typically accomplish this with a low heat for the first few hours. IF the OP is working to improve the wheel then yes a smoke generator would be a good addition to most pellet smokers (Although I understand some of them have a form of this feature.)

 

[SonnyE]

Hey man, Cavemen need some credit here!
Pellet Grill, Pellet smoker, Pellet cooker, Pellet oven..............
Call any of them what you want, they're all nothing more than a form of oven. Doesn't matter if it's producing heat from wood, pellets, charcoal, gas, or electricity they are nothing more than ovens. If you're cooking with any form of wood or burning wood to generate smoke it can be considered a smoker. I personally think most people over smoke their meat but to each their own. I've done this (over smoked) on more than one occasion and Creosote isn't a good flavor profile.
A pellet grill is not a traditional smoker but if you cook with wood (and sawdust is wood) and it produces a smoke flavor (and they do) it can be considered a smoker (IMO.)
A MES or Bradley that burns wood chips in any form is a smoker.
Nothing will every replace the golden standard of a stick burner/charcoal.

But to the point, most owners of pellets grills/smokers would like a way to generate a bit more smoke flavor without the creosote affect and/or flavor. I typically accomplish this with a low heat for the first few hours. IF the OP is working to improve the wheel then yes a smoke generator would be a good addition to most pellet smokers (Although I understand some of them have a form of this feature.)

Opinions vary, Randy.
Pellet grills grew from Joe Traeger playing with a pellet heating stove in the shop.
Some of my old cars smoked, but I wouldn't call them a sm00ker... LMAO!

 

[Bearcarver]

I'll just add what I've heard as the biggest complaints about Pellet Smokers:

As already mentioned,
It seems most, if not all Pellet Smokers need a second source for Smoke, like the "Amazing Smoker", because they use the same heat source for the heat and for the smoke, just like an Electric smoker.

If you could separate the heating & the smoking within the unit, you'd have a big improvement.
Maybe some of them have this---I'm not up on their improvements lately.

Bear

 

[bregent]

It seems most, if not all Pellet Smokers need a second source for Smoke, like the "Amazing Smoker", because they use the same heat source for the heat and for the smoke, just like an Electric smoker.

Bear, they only "need" another source of smoke if you like a really up front smoke flavor. I don't use a supplemental smoke device and I get a nice subtle smoke flavor. The flavor is right on par with some great BBQ joints I visited in Memphis and KC this summer. If you really want in your face smoke that you'll be burping up (some folks do), then you're right.

 

[bregent]

Bregent, morning.... Have you tried it ??? Is there an open exhaust on a pellet grill now ???
The fire in the fire pot is a totally separate function... Pellets in, air in... Then there is a circulatory air flow to move the heat.. That circulatory air flow just needs to be increased...

Morning Dave, not sure exactly what you are saying. Yes, all pellet grills have open exhaust - either open ports on the back or a stack. If you add more ports, they will be exhaust ports because the system is pressurized - they will not pull in fresh air.
Current design for pellet grills is that all air flows through the fire pot. There is already plenty of airflow. Adding more airflow may help reduce the temp, but will certainly adversely affect smoke flavor. More air is not the solution - finding a better way to keep pellets burning at lower temps is probably something to look into.

 

[bregent]

It isn't. It it the guts of a pellet heating furnace, grafted into a chamber people stick food in to cook it.
Run it inefficiently and it makes smoke. But they never were a Smoker.
Advertisers think any smoke makes something a smoker. Wrong.

That's a weak argument Sonny. What difference does it make how something was invented? People were smoking meat with wood well before the use of electricity and gas - are those not 'real' smokers? And you're using an ANMPS, which uses wood pellets which were first created to heat homes. The ANMPS creates smoke by burning pellets inefficiently. So how is that different?

Call it whatever you want, to me, if it cooks and flavors food with wood smoke, it's a smoker.

 

[SonnyE]

That's a weak argument Sonny. What difference does it make how something was invented? People were smoking meat with wood well before the use of electricity and gas - are those not 'real' smokers? And you're using an ANMPS, which uses wood pellets which were first created to heat homes. The ANMPS creates smoke by burning pellets inefficiently. So how is that different?

Call it whatever you want, to me, if it cooks and flavors food with wood smoke, it's a smoker.

A weak argument?
Inefficiently? Tell that to my ash.
Bear and I both get 11 hours of TBS from 15 ounces of pellets.
Now, how much does your pellet pooper use in 11 hours?
Because it is making heat first, and a little smoke because of it's fuel second.

Further, I can run that 11 hours with a mere 2° rise from Ambient Temperature. That is smoking, not burning.

I looked hard and long at Pellet grills. But none could meet the specifications I have.
If one, any one, could have, it would be sitting on my patio.

Henry Ford offered a portable Charcoal Grill with his cars to help people fall in love with driving and picnicking.
Ford understood advertising.

And I don't even like the flavor of the Daughter and Son-In-Laws Treager. It is a different breed of flavor.

I hope Jordy succeeds and does come up with something a cut above what we suffer along with now. Because Pellet Grills are not much beyond what Joe Traeger began with, a heater using pelleted fuels. Which who knows what is pressed into them. There are no standards, and no regulation.
But I trust American Pelleted Wood Blends are a cut above what is used in the Sahara Desert. Yum! Camel Rump smoked over a Camel chip fire! (Maybe why the method hasn't caught on just yet?)

Even though I still have my wood working equipment (Chainsaws, splitters, Etc.), I choose to buy pellet wood because it is easy to get and easy to use. As is my Gas Grill burning Natural Gas.
It smokes, but I damn sure wouldn't ever call it a smoker, either.

 

[Bearcarver]

Bear, they only "need" another source of smoke if you like a really up front smoke flavor. I don't use a supplemental smoke device and I get a nice subtle smoke flavor. The flavor is right on par with some great BBQ joints I visited in Memphis and KC this summer. If you really want in your face smoke that you'll be burping up (some folks do), then you're right.

OK---Thanks!
The only answer I could come up with was that most of the complaints I heard from guys with Pellet Poopers was having to add an AMNPS to get Smoke, so I threw that out there, strictly going by "Hearsay". I figured some of them would chime in on that.

Bear

 

[ravenclan]

This is what i get off of my pellet smoker. same amount of smoke as my propane smoker and my stick burner. BUT i also have done some mods to my PitBoss 700FB. added fire brick to the heat chamber, plugged some of the holes in the back to keep smoke inside longer and also to keep the heat in.