4PoGo7 needs PID advice and help

[4pogo7]

 
No offense taken. I was just suggesting that if the OP was going to decide against doing the PID modification because of the higher cost of a Auber kit, then he might consider doing it the "cheap" way. I think the "cheap" way is better than not doing it at all, unless of course he doesn't know what he is doing or is careless and ends up electrocuted.

Thank you for the information. I have decided to go ahead and do the project even though cost was keeping me from it originally. I also plan on going the Plug-n-Play route because I want quality and pre-made quality is faster and cheaper than doing it myself. Just might take a little longer to get it. Thank you for the suggestions!

 
Since you are talking about hot smokes (ie, full temp from the 1,500 watt Brinkmann element), I strongly recommend the 1,800 watt Auber unit if you go pre-built.  Reason is the duty cycle.  The 1,600 watt unit (the $135 one), will handle a 1,500 watt element, but not at 100% duty cycle (it is in the documentation on the Auber site).

That is what I was thinking I would have to do. I am planning on going Plug-n-Play.

I remember a professor showing us that triangle in college. Very true!

The 1800 watt unit, with dual probes was $213.00 before shipping. Save a little back each paycheck, and before you know it, you'll be controlling your pit with peace of mind, great accuracy, and with customer service that can't be beat. Also, if you save enough, a dozen roses can be delivered just prior to the controller.

Thanks for looking out for me CB. I like your plan!

 
Before you go and plop down your cash, make a list and really think about what you want this to do.  Do you want it to keep your smoker at temp? Do you want it to auto off when the meat hits temp?  Do you want it to make you a slushy beverage with an little umbrella?  You don't want to over buy, but you also don't want to under buy.

As a WSM owner, I want my PID to kick on the fan to keep the temp up and cut the fan so it doesn't get too hot.  All meat monitoring is done by the igrill 2.

That is a good point, thanks for chiming in! Mmm slushy beverage....but I don’t think I need something that fancy. I really just need it to control my smoker temp, however since I am planning on going with a pre-made unit the only two, that I could find, that were able to handle my 1500 watt element were,  

Model #:   WS-1510ELPM, single probe, 1800 watt limit, $179.35

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=110

Model #:   WS-1500GPH, dual probe, 1800 watt limit, $213.00

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=381

If there is a simpler model that someone is aware of please let me know. I figure even though they are more than I really need/want maybe someday they will be handy for an overnight smoke or lazy sausage making.

Also since the price difference is only $33.65 I was thinking of going dual probe that way I can monitor more meat if need be. (had to look up the iGrill 2, that looks nice! And handy with 4 probes. Just another thing that is more $$ than I want to spend lol, maybe someday!)

What are your thoughts, guys? I am going premade, is there a simpler model? Thanks to all of you!!!

 

[crankybuzzard]

Glad we could collectively help out.


Just keep one thing in mind, it isn't the pit or the controls that makes good Q or sausages, that parts up to you! :biggrin:

 

[4pogo7]

Glad we could collectively help out.


Just keep one thing in mind, it isn't the pit or the controls that makes good Q or sausages, that parts up to you!

Thanks CB!

 

[4pogo7]

One last shot. 

Thank you everyone for your advice, input, thoughts, suggestions, and help! It was all very useful and interesting. I feel like I learned a lot through this! 

I will be going with the dual probe Auber pre-made. Back to my other thread to work out some other details of my smoker mod.

Thank you again!

 

[crankybuzzard]

 
One last shot. 

Thank you everyone for your advice, input, thoughts, suggestions, and help! It was all very useful and interesting. I feel like I learned a lot through this! 

I will be going with the dual probe Auber pre-made. Back to my other thread to work out some other details of my smoker mod.

Thank you again!

I have the dual probe as well, let me know if I can help with the learning curve.

 

[4pogo7]

Anyone who has a PID controller for their E-ECB, what temperature ranges do you get? Just wondering what I can expect after getting my PID. Thanks

 

[bmaddox]

 
Anyone who has a PID controller for their E-ECB, what temperature ranges do you get? Just wondering what I can expect after getting my PID. Thanks

Each controller will have its own temp range listed in the specs and it will usually be far outside the limits of what your smoker can do. With a controller on an E-ECB you should be able to go anywhere from a few degrees over ambient temp up to the normal operating temp (I have not tested mine out yet but that is how it should work). 

 

[4pogo7]

Thanks @bmaddox!

Has anyone tested theirs to see what the max temp they can reach is?

 

[4pogo7]

I might be able to pick up an Auber WS-1500ELPM for $75 used. What are your thoughts on this guys? I am assuming this is an older model of the WS-1510ELPM that I was considering for a single probe PID.

 

[dward51]

 
I might be able to pick up an Auber WS-1500ELPM for $75 used. What are your thoughts on this guys? I am assuming this is an older model of the WS-1510ELPM that I was considering for a single probe PID.

For that price, don't wait.  The seller might change his mind.  That unit will work just fine.  BUY IT!!!!

As to the question about max temps.  That controller is not made to run 1500 watts at a 100% duty cycle.  But unless you are trying to drive the ECB to 300* to crisp chicken, I don't think you will ever see a 100% duty cycle.  And if you need that kind of heat, just plug the element in with no PID like it currently is.  There is a parameter you can set to reduce the maximum duty cycle if SSR overheating is a problem.  It's all in the manual.  For smoking at 225* and lower (for sausage making), that is a perfect unit and a great price.

PS - if they have more than one at that price, PM me as I might want a spare.

 

[4pogo7]

 
For that price, don't wait.  The seller might change his mind.  That unit will work just fine.  BUY IT!!!!

As to the question about max temps.  That controller is not made to run 1500 watts at a 100% duty cycle.  But unless you are trying to drive the ECB to 300* to crisp chicken, I don't think you will ever see a 100% duty cycle.  And if you need that kind of heat, just plug the element in with no PID like it currently is.  There is a parameter you can set to reduce the maximum duty cycle if SSR overheating is a problem.  It's all in the manual.  For smoking at 225* and lower (for sausage making), that is a perfect unit and a great price.

PS - if they have more than one at that price, PM me as I might want a spare.

Thanks for the info.

I don't understand PID's as much as I should by now, why won't it handle 1500 watts at 100% duty cycle? According to a manual I found it said, "The maximum electric current this controller can handle is 15 Ampere. For 120 volt AC in US and Canada, this limits the heater power to 1800 watts." I will admit I am probably misunderstanding that statement.

Below is the manual link

http://auberins.com/images/Manual/WS-1500ELPM.pdf

As for max temp let me run through a couple things:

1. According to Brinkmann, the electric smoker is designed to heat to 250°F without adjustment. I have never checked mine to see if this is the actual temp it reaches, and if it holds that temp. If it is factory set to reach and hold 250°F is there anyway I can get it to go higher than that? I know for most things I won't need to, but in case I do, like for crisping chicken, will the PID override the factory setup and make it go higher?

2. If I get a PID controller I should be able to control the temperature of the smoker from about 5°F above ambient temp up to 250°F, if that is the max?

3. Will sealing/insulating my smoker as well as adding thermal mass to it help increase the max temp, or just help reduce temp swings and speed up recover time after taking the lid off? IS there anyway that I can increase the max temp of my smoker? Preferably while keeping the stock 1500 watt element and hopefully adding a PID controller.

@dward51  I will send you a PM 

 

[bmaddox]

 
Thanks for the info.

I don't understand PID's as much as I should by now, why won't it handle 1500 watts at 100% duty cycle? According to a manual I found it said, "The maximum electric current this controller can handle is 15 Ampere. For 120 volt AC in US and Canada, this limits the heater power to 1800 watts." I will admit I am probably misunderstanding that statement.

Below is the manual link

http://auberins.com/images/Manual/WS-1500ELPM.pdf

As for max temp let me run through a couple things:

1. According to Brinkmann, the electric smoker is designed to heat to 250°F without adjustment. I have never checked mine to see if this is the actual temp it reaches, and if it holds that temp. If it is factory set to reach and hold 250°F is that anyway I can get it to go higher than that? I know for most things I won't need to, but in case I do, like for crisping chicken, will the PID override the factory setup and make it go higher? No. The ECB holds "around" 250 depending on numerous factors. All it does is turn on and run constantly to maintain close to that temp. If the wind is blowing it will run lower than 250 (as I found out last week when our chickens took almost 2 hours longer to finish). For instance, If you set the PID to 300 it will run constantly and will probably never reach 300. 

2. If I get a PID controller I should be able to control the temperature of the smoker from about 5°F above ambient temp up to 250°F, if that is the max? Correct. 

3. Will sealing/insulating my smoker as well as adding thermal mass to it help increase the max temp, or just help reduce temp swings and speed up recover time after taking the lid off? IS there anyway that I can increase the max temp of my smoker? Preferably while keeping the stock 1500 watt element and hopefully adding a PID controller. Yes sealing it and insulating will help it get to higher temp. How high is unknown and will vary depending on the weather and how much meat is in it. Adding bricks or some other thermal mass will help hold the temp but those items will only get as hot as the smoker itself so I don't know if they would really increase the max temp. 

@dward51  I will send you a PM 

 

[4pogo7]

Once again, thank you for clearing things up for me and for the good information!

 

[haulinbuns]

Thanks for the info.

I don't understand PID's as much as I should by now, why won't it handle 1500 watts at 100% duty cycle? According to a manual I found it said, "The maximum electric current this controller can handle is 15 Ampere. For 120 volt AC in US and Canada, this limits the heater power to 1800 watts." I will admit I am probably misunderstanding that statement.
Below is the manual link
http://auberins.com/images/Manual/WS-1500ELPM.pdf

Don't confuse continuous heat dissipation rating in Watts versus the power rating in Watts. The PID referenced can handle 1800 Watts of power output at 100% duty cycle but for no longer than 90 minutes or it will overheat per the manual. The 1200 W rating is for continuous heat dissipation meaning it can handle the heat generated by 1200 W of continuous power output indefinitely. On a smoker controlled by a PID, the only time the PID is running at full output is during startup and when the meat is first put in the smoker and usually is only at full power for less than 30 minutes at a time unless you are trying to run it at max temp.

I have a MES 30 analog with a 1500W element. I control it with a 1200W Auber PID and have no issues with the controller overheating because it never runs at 100% duty cycle for more than 30 min. The max temp of my smoker is around 300 deg. But I never run it there during smokes. 250 is the max and if I want to go to max temp say for a cleaning cycle after a smoke, I disconnect the PID and run the smoker full throttle. Since your smokers max temp is 250 and you seem to want to run it there for extended periods, you should take this into consideration. Just some food for thought. No pun intended.

 

[4pogo7]

The PID referenced can handle 1800 Watts of power output at 100% duty cycle but for no longer than 90 minutes or it will overheat per the manual. The 1200 W rating is for continuous heat dissipation meaning it can handle the heat generated by 1200 W of continuous power output indefinitely. Okay you lost me there. I got the part about 1800 watts at 100% for 90 minutes, that was pretty straightforward in the manual. However, where did you find the 1200 W rating? I will admit I didn’t read everything about the controller, but I was unable to find the 1200 W rating you stated with a quick search. 

I have a MES 30 analog with a 1500W element. I control it with a 1200W Auber PID and have no issues with the controller overheating because it never runs at 100% duty cycle for more than 30 min. I understand it will only be running at 100% for less than 30 minutes, but if it is rated below 1500W for a max heater power wouldn’t it be bad to run it at 100% regardless of how long it runs?The max temp of my smoker is around 300 deg. But I never run it there during smokes. 250 is the max and if I want to go to max temp say for a cleaning cycle after a smoke, I disconnect the PID and run the smoker full throttle. Since your smokers max temp is 250 and you seem to want to run it there for extended periods, you should take this into consideration. Just some food for thought. No pun intended.

Thank you for all the info, hopefully you can clear stuff up for me. 

I don't want to run my smoker at max temp for extended periods of time. I am just trying to understand what I can expect once I get a PID: min temp, max temp, controllability, performance. And yes, if i do want to run it full blast I will just plug it in without the PID.

 

[4pogo7]

Okay so I contacted Auber. Figured I would go to the source since I keep getting confused. This is what they told me:

"For 1500W smoker, for single probe controller, you can check WS-1500EPM. For dual-probe controller, you can check WSD-1500GPH."

When I asked about running my E-ECB on full they replied back with:

"1500EPM is fine for your 1500W heater. We also mentioned Brinkmann  smoker in its product page." Basically, trust us....we know what we're doing.

I guess if I have if I get that one and have trouble with it, I have proof that they told me to do it!

 

[haulinbuns]

 
Thank you for all the info, hopefully you can clear stuff up for me. 

I don't want to run my smoker at max temp for extended periods of time. I am just trying to understand what I can expect once I get a PID: min temp, max temp, controllability, performance. And yes, if i do want to run it full blast I will just plug it in without the PID.

The first part of my reply referring to the 1200W rating was me confusing my Auber PID which is a 1200W unit with the one you listed which is 1500W.  Just replace everything I said in the first paragraph with 1500W and it makes sense.

As far as running at over 1500W, again this rating is for continuous heat dissipation.  The PID you listed can handle 1800W (120V x 15A) but just for not longer that 90 min. or it will overheat.  The output SSR can handle the current draw at 1800W but the heatsink capability of the PID can only sustain that much heat generated for 90 min. or less.  Hope this helps.

 

[4pogo7]

 
The first part of my reply referring to the 1200W rating was me confusing my Auber PID which is a 1200W unit with the one you listed which is 1500W.  Just replace everything I said in the first paragraph with 1500W and it makes sense.

As far as running at over 1500W, again this rating is for continuous heat dissipation.  The PID you listed can handle 1800W (120V x 15A) but just for not longer that 90 min. or it will overheat.  The output SSR can handle the current draw at 1800W but the heatsink capability of the PID can only sustain that much heat generated for 90 min. or less.  Hope this helps.

Aaahhhh okay! That makes more sense lol Thanks!