WS-1510ELPM set-up help

[FreshGround]

Just killed it. Ran like 2hrs and last hour ended up seeing EXACTLY 325F for an hour. WOW. That's impressive.

I felt cabinet a few places and top got a little warm in one place but not anything that scared me. 325F for like 45m will get my chicken breasts done and crispy skin. No plans to run anything else that high and I am well aware of the risks. Insert disclaimer here LOL.

Wifi I will figure out. Have an older router but hope I don't have to play with it router setup each run. I am SUPER impressed with the build quality and info online so think once I get her dialed in I will be fine. Worst case I keep the old router plugged in.

Just out of curiosity, what values did you end up with?

 

[zwiller]

I think I got it. Tried a 2.4G extender and an old router and no dice (phone kept wanting the 5G and even turned it off). Ended up calling my cable/ISP to sort it out. Yes, have both 2.4G and 5G and had to rename them so I could use the 2.4G. Kinda wild, I think we've been using 2.4G in the house... We had some issues with streaming so gonna recheck everything and make sure all else is 5G.

The wifi setup is sorta wonky and slow to me. I can live with that if it stays solid. I do NOT want to fooling with this stuff before a smoke.

325F is like autoclean mode. Really cleaned up the thing LOL. tallbm EXACTLY what I am doing 325F middle shelf.

F FreshGround Stock setting for that first run. Took a LOOONG time to get to temp tho. Playing with something close to Rich's in a few. I have no idea how to tell if good or bad tho. More to follow.

normanaj It was around this time last year I got mine and they ran a TG sale and was 15% off so I pulled trigger.

 

[zwiller]

Been fooling with the wifi all day and not working well. Not cool.

 

[zwiller]

Got back down to basics this AM and have Auber setup inside near router. Was convinced yesterday was a weak signal or interference issue. Not much difference... Decided to compare the details of Auber wifi settings vs router. Tried a few things and not much help but noticed 802.11 was g/n on router and Auber shows 802.11 b/g/n. Changed that and BIG improvement! Been solid for near an hour now. Hope that was it. Will hook up later outside for another trial. Then I need to figure out some wire management.

 

[chopsaw]

Sam , not sure what you have going on , but if you have that running without a load it can cause an open loop condition . Even when attached to a load I read it should reach set temp in 90 minutes or less .

 

[zwiller]

Sam , not sure what you have going on , but if you have that running without a load it can cause an open loop condition . Even when attached to a load I read it should reach set temp in 90 minutes or less .

First off let me clarify. Auber itself working perfectly but app was NOT. IE set the Auber for 275F yesterday and plugged it in. It proceeded to heat to said temp and held it for like 4-5 hours with 1-2deg variance AT WORST, mostly it was dead nuts. Impressive. All the while, the app was basically DOA. I tried TONS of things to no avail. Basically, the app showed connected but really wasn't or would show waiting to connect. On and off. In reality the app just did not work. This meant I could not make changes nor create a log. Just shut her down a few moments ago but ran the Auber (no load) to test app/connectivity and no issues! That's 4 hours. Hoping I got this now. I think I am one of the few guys with the wifi model so I wanted to document my findings for the team. Cliff notes: Auber is VERY picky with wifi setup and best to make sure settings match Auber's as much as possible. Gonna fire it up outside for a real world test in a few. BTW no idea how or why but the app sent a notification that smoker was under 100F. That was pretty slick.

Rich, not complaining, but the MES is definitely slower to heat up than stock but that's life, a bunch of tradeoffs. Not horrible but just noticeable is all. Need to research more but think you permanently mounted the heat sensor. I need to reduce the clutter and cables once I think it's solid.

 

[chopsaw]

I looked for the thread where another member has the same one with the same issues . Couldn't find it .
I knew it was an app issue .
Had mine go into open loop once . Didn't hurt it , but was a pain to get it back to acting right .

not complaining, but the MES is definitely slower to heat up than stock

It's just a matter of settings between P and I .

 

[chopsaw]

Need to research more but think you permanently mounted the heat sensor. I need to reduce the clutter and cables once I think it's solid.

Yeah . I used the mounting hardware from the original useless meat probe . I bought a spare sensor also . Stock MES cord on the right . Auber power cord on the left . Temp probe coiled up in a 4 " box with a blank cover . Keeps it clean .

Therm probe keepers

 

[tallbm]

First off let me clarify. Auber itself working perfectly but app was NOT. IE set the Auber for 275F yesterday and plugged it in. It proceeded to heat to said temp and held it for like 4-5 hours with 1-2deg variance AT WORST, mostly it was dead nuts. Impressive. All the while, the app was basically DOA. I tried TONS of things to no avail. Basically, the app showed connected but really wasn't or would show waiting to connect. On and off. In reality the app just did not work. This meant I could not make changes nor create a log. Just shut her down a few moments ago but ran the Auber (no load) to test app/connectivity and no issues! That's 4 hours. Hoping I got this now. I think I am one of the few guys with the wifi model so I wanted to document my findings for the team. Cliff notes: Auber is VERY picky with wifi setup and best to make sure settings match Auber's as much as possible. Gonna fire it up outside for a real world test in a few. BTW no idea how or why but the app sent a notification that smoker was under 100F. That was pretty slick.

Rich, not complaining, but the MES is definitely slower to heat up than stock but that's life, a bunch of tradeoffs. Not horrible but just noticeable is all. Need to research more but think you permanently mounted the heat sensor. I need to reduce the clutter and cables once I think it's solid.

View attachment 644945

Once you get your connectivity issues ironed out it will be easy to tweak the P-I-D settings so it comes up to temp faster.
In short, lower the P value to something like 5 from where it is at. That will do much better for initial ramp up, then report back on how much it overshoots and if the initial overshoot is an issue :)

 

[zwiller]

Still having issues outside... Tapping out for today. Like I said tho, Auber working perfectly but no connectivity. I am pretty knowlegeable of the stuff too. Wifi distance not far at all. GRRR.

 

[chopsaw]

Finally found that old thread . He was having other issues , but might be something of interest in there .

Auber WS-1510H-W first impressions

Today I finished an overnight smoke on 20 lbs of bone in pork shoulders, first run with the Auber. Overall I like it, with a couple caveats so far. 1. I cannot get the alarm feature on the app to work. The controller sounds, but the app gives zero notification. Hopefully that can be fixed short...

www.smokingmeatforums.com

 

[zwiller]

Thanks Rich. I can tell you when I did have it connected in test it was WAY better than any other setup I have. Better than the Inkbird wifi. I plan to do a TON more testing and will update that thread with my results. That notification I got was SLICK. All that being said, I can tell already the app is nowhere near as customizable as I expected.

In another thread it was suggested I uninstall the app and reboot phone and do a fresh install. Great idea. Plan to reach out to Auber if that does not help. I actually installed the app a long time before I even got the controller so maybe something hinky about that.

 

[FreshGround]

OK, so I did my burn-in for 2 hrs. and then used a pellet tube for an hour to put smoke into it.

Then the autotune. Knowing that I could redo it if necessary I chose to do it with an empty smoker. I set the program to 225 for 3 hours, and started the autotune. When it was done (less than 2 hours), it maintained 225* steadily for an hour, so that seemed good. My numbers, OTOH, seemed at variance with other numbers I've seen. My numbers were:

P 57
I 259
d 67

Do these numbers make sense? Am I ready to start smoking (first project will be smoked jerky) or should I redo the autotune with a load?

 

[thikhh]

I think I am starting to understand a little. Ironically, since I started out thinking about a Smokin-it #1 before switching to the Masterbuild analog, the most understandable discussion I found, until I came back here, was on the Auber forum on the Smokin-it website.

 

[tallbm]

OK, so I did my burn-in for 2 hrs. and then used a pellet tube for an hour to put smoke into it.

Then the autotune. Knowing that I could redo it if necessary I chose to do it with an empty smoker. I set the program to 225 for 3 hours, and started the autotune. When it was done (less than 2 hours), it maintained 225* steadily for an hour, so that seemed good. My numbers, OTOH, seemed at variance with other numbers I've seen. My numbers were:

P 57
I 259
d 67

Do these numbers make sense? Am I ready to start smoking (first project will be smoked jerky) or should I redo the autotune with a load?

The P value seems a bit slow (lower number is faster than higher number).
I'll explain it using your numbers.

When P hits within 57 degrees of your set temp it will begin to power down the heating element from 100% out put.
So when Set temp at 257 and the smoker hits temp 201 then the PID will ramp element power down to like 98% total heat/power output.
The "I" and "D" values will try to kick in but also often take their ques from "P" making "P" the lead value to play with first.

When Smoker temp hits 230F the PID will have power output to 48%.

So with these numbers, every degree increase is about 1.8% decrease in the element power.

So when the smoker is at 256F degrees the PID will have element power/heat output at 1.8%

That may sound confusing but in short the closer you get to your set temp the greater the decrease in power output to the heating element.

So the higher your "P" value the earlier the ramp down of power to the heating element becomes.
A higher "P" value means longer time to ramp up and hit your set temp.

A lower "P" value like a 5 means that the at smoker set to 250F degrees will be 100% power output to a smoker temp of 245F then at 246F it will ramp down to 80% output (20% per degree in this case).

This can lead to some overshoot of the 250F set temp when the smoker is initially coming up to speed or after opening the door BUT that overshoot only happens in that case when the "I" and "D" values are turned well and your I-D values seem to be in the ballpark so I think they are ok.

In conclusion, if it takes a little bit of time to initially heat up or heat up after opening the door than simply decrease the "P" value to something like 10, 7, 5, 3, or some sensible value knowing how it behaves when you observe it as you use it.

I threw a lot of info at you here so be sure to ask any questions you have :)

 

[zwiller]

Many thanks tallbm . What are we aiming for? Like 1+/- set temp or dead on or? I think I read somewhere that the lower the target temp the harder for accuracy. Curious if different PID parameters can be saved in the recipe/presets.

 

[tallbm]

Many thanks tallbm . What are we aiming for? Like 1+/- set temp or dead on or? I think I read somewhere that the lower the target temp the harder for accuracy. Curious if different PID parameters can be saved in the recipe/presets.

I would think +/- 1 would be good and dead one is highly likely. Once set temp is hit then P kind of falls away as it's main job is the power and ramp up.

"I" will then take over to tightly hold too set temp or around the set temp.

So lots of "I" values reported from low to mid 200's so I=259 is in the ballpark.

Once you have your PID parameters set it is very unlikey you will have to touch them.

The fringe situations are usually going high heat and maintaining or low heat and maintaining. There could be some improvement but in my experience It hasn't been needed.

In doing 160-180F smokes for jerky and such I don't really see any move from set temp, maybe 1-2 drop every now and again. On 325F smokes I am dead on.
So you see the range is quite broad for me not to ever need to adjust my PID values.
I live in TX so ambient temps would kinda cover temps 80-100F so can't really speak to that lol.

 

[FreshGround]

The P value seems a bit slow (lower number is faster than higher number).
I'll explain it using your numbers.

When P hits within 57 degrees of your set temp it will begin to power down the heating element from 100% out put.
So when Set temp at 257 and the smoker hits temp 201 then the PID will ramp element power down to like 98% total heat/power output.
The "I" and "D" values will try to kick in but also often take their ques from "P" making "P" the lead value to play with first.

When Smoker temp hits 230F the PID will have power output to 48%.

So with these numbers, every degree increase is about 1.8% decrease in the element power.

So when the smoker is at 256F degrees the PID will have element power/heat output at 1.8%

That may sound confusing but in short the closer you get to your set temp the greater the decrease in power output to the heating element.

So the higher your "P" value the earlier the ramp down of power to the heating element becomes.
A higher "P" value means longer time to ramp up and hit your set temp.

A lower "P" value like a 5 means that the at smoker set to 250F degrees will be 100% power output to a smoker temp of 245F then at 246F it will ramp down to 80% output (20% per degree in this case).

This can lead to some overshoot of the 250F set temp when the smoker is initially coming up to speed or after opening the door BUT that overshoot only happens in that case when the "I" and "D" values are turned well and your I-D values seem to be in the ballpark so I think they are ok.

In conclusion, if it takes a little bit of time to initially heat up or heat up after opening the door than simply decrease the "P" value to something like 10, 7, 5, 3, or some sensible value knowing how it behaves when you observe it as you use it.

I threw a lot of info at you here so be sure to ask any questions you have :)

So if I'm understanding you, the P is really significant for the time it takes the smoker to heat up initially, or when it's ramping from, say, 100 in C1 to 180 in C2. But that once the target temp has been reached it is the I and the D that are responsible for maintaining the target temp +/- 1?

Would it be worthwhile to measure the effect by timing the smoker going from cold to 225 with P=57 and then letting it cool back down and timing it with P=7? And if I do that would it be better to measure the time to get to the point it first hits 225 or the point where it settles down to 225?

 

[chopsaw]

Did you look at the link I posted in this thread ?

 

[FreshGround]

Did you look at the link I posted in this thread ?

I did, but I don't think I am far up enough on the learning curve to make that much practical sense out of it. Two days ago I knew absolutely nothing and the Auber manual was incomprehensible to me.

So I reverted back to your earlier advice:

Auto tune didn't work for me , but try it and see what you think .
You can try someone's numbers , but you have an analog smoker right ? Without insulation your numbers will probably different .
I don't agree with setting up under load , but that doesn't mean I'm right .
To me it makes more sense to dial it in empty , and here's why .
Like I said above I don't put cold meat in before I turn it on , and I don't cook the same thing every time .

Now I am just trying to understand the results better.