What I Learned From Pulled Pork Failure While Forum Was Down

[johnmeyer]

While the forum was down I decided to thaw out the second of the two butts I bought at Costco last winter and do another pulled pork. This time, however, I got it into my head that I was not going to wrap it because so many people in this forum have said that if you wait out the stall, you'll get great bark, and the end result will be better.

Well, I did exactly that, but the end result is not what I expected, and was not good.

I started the thing at 1:00 a.m. hoping that would give me plenty of time before a 7:30 p.m. dinner time the next evening. I filled and lit my AMNPS, put it in my popcorn mod external attachment, set the MES 30 smoker to 225 degrees, and went to bed. The next morning, everything was fine, and the first stage had gone perfectly.

But then, the darn thing started to stall, not at 160 degrees IT, but at 140. To make a long story short, it stalled from 10:00 in the morning until past 4:00 p.m., only going from 140 to 160 in that time. I turned up the heat, eventually getting the MES to its max of 275, but the meat still wouldn't get past the stall. We skipped dinner, and as the 7:30 p.m. dinner time slipped by, I went into full-on stubborn mode and was going to finish without wrapping, no matter what. This was now a quest.

I finally got it to 195 at 10:00 p.m. (18 hours), brought it inside, let it rest for half an hour, and then pulled it.

The result? Very disappointing. There was not one single drop of juice in the pan I had below it in the smoker during the entire smoke, and not one drop came out during the rest period. The meat was extremely dry, although the bark was indeed very flavorful and crisp. However, the absence of that "liquid gold" smoking liquid, and the lack of moisture make this method a complete non-starter for me. I won't ever do it again. Except for slightly thicker, chewier bark, I see no upside to this method. And, of course, it makes it even tougher to plan when dinner is going to happen, whereas the wrapping actually produces an end result in very predictable, repeatable times.

I did add a lot more finishing sauce than usual, and that helped a little to make it moister, but it is not substitute for the amazing juice that normally is in that pan, and no substitute for having some moisture left in the meat fibers themselves.

The next time I do this, if I've gotten 6-8 hours of smoke on the thing, when it hits the stall, I'm wrapping it. It is both easier and better that way, a tough combination to beat.

 

[myownidaho]

That's a long stall. I've never experienced one like that. One thing I would look at is your thermometer? I've had to replace several thermometers/probes because the suddenly failed on reporting an accurate temperature.

 

[drunkenmeatfist]

Sorry to hear about the trouble, but that sounds like something other than wrapped vs unwrapped. Having nothing in the drip pan after smoking a pork butt sounds crazy. I've never bothered wrapping a pork butt and have never had anything like what you describe happen.

 

[noboundaries]

I smoke my butts / picnics unwrapped. Have for quite some time now. I usually smoke butts in the 8-10 lb range. I don't trim the fat, just score it.

That pan below the butt should have had rendered fat it in, quite a bit actually. If it came out clean, something was going on with the smoker.

18 hours isn't unusual. I've had 10 lb butts go almost 22 hours until probe tender around 200-203F IT. 195F IT is a bit low for pulling, but I've done it before. It doesn't taste as tender at those taken to a little higher IT.

 

[johnmeyer]

The lack of anything in the pan was a real puzzle to me. It was most definitely under the meat, and there was nothing on the floor of the smoker, so I'm pretty sure it was setup in a position where it would have gotten the drips.

I did test the Maverick thermometer by bringing out my Thermopen and using it to take a measurement. They agree to within +-1 degree, so I don't think that was the problem.

None of this is a big deal because I'll simply wrap it the next time. It worked perfectly for the first three pulled porks I did. I'm sure it will work well in the future. Other than having the bark a little soft, there really isn't and downside, now that I've tried it without wrapping.

 

[drunkenmeatfist]

The lack of anything in the pan was a real puzzle to me. It was most definitely under the meat, and there was nothing on the floor of the smoker, so I'm pretty sure it was setup in a position where it would have gotten the drips.

I did test the Maverick thermometer by bringing out my Thermopen and using it to take a measurement. They agree to within +-1 degree, so I don't think that was the problem.

None of this is a big deal because I'll simply wrap it the next time. It worked perfectly for the first three pulled porks I did. I'm sure it will work well in the future. Other than having the bark a little soft, there really isn't and downside, now that I've tried it without wrapping.

I hope that the wrap fixes your problem, but there had to have been something else that would have caused that result.

 

[tallbm]

Any chance the butt wasn't completely thawed? Also have you tried doing at 275F the entire smoke? Did it probe tender at 195F?

I'm asking all of this for that day that I try a pork butt unwrapped. I have stopped wrapping my brisket and LOVE how it comes out HOWEVER briskets are lot flatter than a big round pork butt so I'm not sure what to expect from an unwrapped butt.

 

[johnmeyer]

It was definitely thawed. I did that in the microwave, using a 1.5 hour defrost cycle. Then the defrost was finished, I added the rub, covered it, and put it in the fridge for five hours. When it was time to cook at 1:00 a.m., just past midnight, the temperature probe went all the way in without any problem, and there was no sense of any residual frozen meat.

I did spritz it with apple juice/captain morgan rum mixture about every 90 minutes, starting the next morning, about six hours into the smoke. This obviously cools it down a little. However, this is a step that most people seem to do, so I don't think that was unusual. This butt was the "mate" of one I did last spring, and that one turned out completely different, even though it was done in the same MES smoker, using the same temps, and same external smoking mod.

The lack of wrapping was the only difference.

 

[SmokinAl]

I don't understand how there would not be any juice in the drip pan.
Something very strange going on there.
I smoke my butts in the 270-280 range & they very seldom stall at higher cooking temps.
Never foil them either.

Al

 

[wanna-be-smoker]

I never wrap my butts, I cook at 225 (high smoke on my camp chef pellet cooker) they usually go between 10-18 hours. While your times temps seem pretty normal to mine the end result for sure seems off the mark and out of the ordinary.

 

[lemans]

Microwave ... noooooo that’s the reason for lack of juice.. next time let it sit in the fridge overnight then inject with apple juice. Put in a pan and smoke it every hour spray it with apple cider vinegar till it hits the stall.. then wrap the top with foil and back into the smoker til The IT is 200. Is the meat soft and does the bone wiggle?? Take it out put it in a cooler with some towels for an hour or more. I guarentee there will be juice and moisture. And a wonderful bark ..

 

[johnmeyer]

I really don't think the microwave did anything that would change the juiciness. As I said above, I used the defrost cycle on the microwave, so the meat never got warm and did not exude even one drop of juice. Just to be clear I did NOT microwave the meat in order to cook it.

 

[drunkenmeatfist]

I would think that it would probably be the microwave defrost that dried the meat out. How long did you have it in the freezer though?

 

[johnmeyer]

Six months in the freezer, vacuum packed. It was like new. I cook food all the time that has been in the freezer for lots longer than this. If you have a Foodsaver or other vacuum system, you know how miraculously it extends the amount of time things can stay in the freezer without any noticeable degradation. In addition, my fridge has separate compressors for the freezer and fridge sections, so the freezer always stays well below zero F.

I have never heard of microwave defrosting having any affect on the meat compared to conventional countertop or refrigerator defrosting. I don't see how it would or could change anything: heat is gradually causing the meat to thaw. Again, at the risk of repeating myself, the meat did not get warm, and there was zero juice in the Foodsaver vacuum packaging (I defrosted in the vacuum-sealed packaging).

However, if someone can point me to some study or article on complete and total loss of ALL moisture in something that has been thawed (using the defrost cycle) in a microwave, I'll gladly reconsider.

 

[drunkenmeatfist]

Six months in the freezer, vacuum packed. It was like new. I cook food all the time that has been in the freezer for lots longer than this. If you have a Foodsaver or other vacuum system, you know how miraculously it extends the amount of time things can stay in the freezer without any noticeable degradation. In addition, my fridge has separate compressors for the freezer and fridge sections, so the freezer always stays well below zero F.

I have never heard of microwave defrosting having any affect on the meat compared to conventional countertop or refrigerator defrosting. I don't see how it would or could change anything: heat is gradually causing the meat to thaw. Again, at the risk of repeating myself, the meat did not get warm, and there was zero juice in the Foodsaver vacuum packaging (I defrosted in the vacuum-sealed packaging).

However, if someone can point me to some study or article on complete and total loss of ALL moisture in something that has been thawed (using the defrost cycle) in a microwave, I'll gladly reconsider.

Well this one stumps me then. I have seen a whole bunch of people here, myself included, that smoke pork shoulders without wrapping. I have never heard any of them the problem you had. I have never read anything here about people using the microwave to defrost. Either way it sounds like you found your perfect method for pulled pork so congrats.

 

[gmc2003]

John, I'm stumped, I have seen microwaved meat turn a grayish color before, but not totally dry.

Maybe it's a ZOMBIE pork butt, or a VAMPIRE butt you could always look for two puncture holes in the other one.

Chris

 

[wanna-be-smoker]

Six months in the freezer, vacuum packed. It was like new. I cook food all the time that has been in the freezer for lots longer than this. If you have a Foodsaver or other vacuum system, you know how miraculously it extends the amount of time things can stay in the freezer without any noticeable degradation. In addition, my fridge has separate compressors for the freezer and fridge sections, so the freezer always stays well below zero F.

I have never heard of microwave defrosting having any affect on the meat compared to conventional countertop or refrigerator defrosting. I don't see how it would or could change anything: heat is gradually causing the meat to thaw. Again, at the risk of repeating myself, the meat did not get warm, and there was zero juice in the Foodsaver vacuum packaging (I defrosted in the vacuum-sealed packaging).

However, if someone can point me to some study or article on complete and total loss of ALL moisture in something that has been thawed (using the defrost cycle) in a microwave, I'll gladly reconsider.

Not sure if it had anything to do with your cook being off but I have defrosted many things that come out partially cooked. Never have I defrosted anything that came out cold or even at room temps. its always warm to a point which means it was cooking on some level even just the smallest little bit.

So again no clue if it affected your cook and this is not some article( which im sure if i really wanted to i could find stuff supporting either side of the question) proving it does or does not. This is simply my take on it based off countless microwave defrosts.

 

[johnmeyer]

The two keys to using the microwave to defrost without warming the object are:

1. Use either the defrost setting, or something lower. The microwave pulses on and off. Level 3 (30% duty cycle, meaning off 70% of the time) is the usual defrost setting on most microwaves. I often use a lower setting towards the end of the defrost cycle (level 1).

2. Turn, turn, turn. It's a Pete Seger song made famous by the Byrds, but it's also great advice for doing defrosting. My Amana microwave does not have a turntable, but even for those units that have one, you still need to rotate the object top to bottom and sideways in order to avoid hot spots.

A third minor point is to keep checking every 4-5 minutes, and if the outside feels warmer than room temperature, stop for five minutes. It took about 80 minutes to defrost my 8 pound pork butt to room temperature, so this is still a long process, but less than the 12+ hours it would have taken at room temperature.

You can also put the vacuum-packed object into a cold water bath. That is almost, but not quite, as fast, and you most definitely will not get any hot spots.

 

[amlong88]

I've had a couple times that 195 IT wasn't done enough. I take all my pork butts to 205 now. If the collagen doesn't break down i have found you will get a dry butt. 205 unwrapped I haven't had one that was dry.

 

[abetheham]

I just smoked 2 butts on Saturday, no wrap. I pulled them out of the freezer and put them in the fridge on Monday, rubbed them Thursday night, and smoked them Friday night into late Saturday morning. From my experience, letting the meat thaw in the fridge always turns out better than defrosting them in a microwave. I'd give it a try again, this time letting the meat thaw in the fridge. I used to wrap and I converted over to not wrapping. Much better bark and flavor in my opinion. Your smoker thermometer is accurate, right? Not the meat probe, but the actual smoker thermometer?