Up_In_Smoke
Smoking Fanatic
I don't understand the whole "no seed oil" thingy.
Is any of that based on actual science??
Is any of that based on actual science??
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They finally got things Right!
- Thread starter radioguy
- Start date
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Yes. Real actual science. I have a very strong background in organic chemistry. I understand the science. Here are some cliff notes for anyone interested:
Unsaturated fats have double bonds in the molecules, that is why they are 'unsaturaded' meaning all the possible spots on the carbon chain where hydrogen atoms could be bonded are not filled. These double bonds make unsaturated fats (oils) very reactive- and that is the problem. When you add heat, pressure, and all the other steps involved in processing, a whole lot of sideways reactions occur and some of these side products are extremely unhealthy. Even when the oil is bottled at the factory, it contains an extremely small percentage of these impure side products, and just by the fact that these impurities are there, and unsaturated oils are highly unstable and reactive, what you get is a chain reaction in that bottle. Heat makes it worse.
I would NEVER order fried foods at a restaurant because that oil is almost guaranteed to be a seed oil and heated all day, cooled at night, then reheated again...for at least a week or more. Some small restaurants, that oil might be filtered and reused God knows how long....and the amount of toxic chemicals would shock you. Not fit for human consumption IMO. I will say this-one small size order of french fries from one famous fast food chain contains more toxic aldehydes than if you smoked an entire pack of cigarettes. Dr. Shanahan has run samples through scientific equipment and has actual real data on this.
*see the book Dark Calories by Dr. Catherine Shanahan
What is worse is what happens when these adultered oils get in your body. Some background... oils and fats get broken down through digestion by bile released from the liver and lipase released from the pancreas to be absorbed. Once in the body, these oils/fats get broken down further to be used in the body, and this is where the problem lies. All the cells in the human body are made from lipids. Lipids are small pieces of fats (oils). The cell membrane needs to have 'some' omega 3 and omega 6 fats in the membrane to keep it slightly flexible. If none are present, then the cell membrane is too rigid and prone to rupture....accelerating cell death...i.e. aging. but if too many omega 3 and omega 6 fats (oils) are used in the cell membrane, then the cell membrane becomes too soft and squishy and much more prone to rupture and an even great acceleration in cell death....much faster cellular aging.
The ratio of omega 6: omega 3 fats in the human body should be at roughly 3:1. Which you can get eating strictly animal fats. Sadly today, with the Standard American Diet, the average American has a 25-30:1 ratio of Omega6:Omega3 fats. And it is one of the main drivers for inflammation today. Omega 6 fats are inflammatory while omega 3 fats are anti-inflammatory.. There is a whole lot more, but these are the bigger high points as to why seed oils suck for human consumption. I could go on, but this is a long winded post as is....
FYI, it takes 3-4 years to rid the seed oils from your body and get your omega 6: omega 3 ratio back in line where it should be...and that is if you stop eating all seed oils today, and never touch the stuff again. Anyone wanting to go down this rabbit hole should look up and research how Criso was invented and marketed to the public back before there was such a thing as 'food regulations'.
Up_In_Smoke
Smoking Fanatic
chef k-dude
Master of the Pit
You bieng our resident microbiologist
, what is your opinion of flax seed oil as a supplement for Omega 3?Also, on the carbs discussion, what do you think about resistant starch? I have read for some time that preparing and refrigerating starches like pasta, rice and beans before eating converts a lot of the "sweet" carbs in to resistant carbs which is digested differently, and actually beneficial for gut health.
I ran across this in a BBC article I stumbled on somehow. The author regularly ate at a nearby Italian place (like 5 times a week) and wondered why he didn't get fat eating pasta, essentially all week long. He also wondered how they could get a plate to his table in less time than it takes to typically boil most pastas. When he asked the server, she told him all the pasta is boiled al dente the day before, then portioned and refrigerated. When ordered the pasta is dropped in boiling water for about a minute, drained and served.
He got the staff to agree to an experiment, with half eating the pre-boiled pasta, and the other half eating freshly boiled pasta, then started monitoring blood sugar levels (by what method I cant recall). Those eating the pre-boiled and refrigerated overnight pasta had a much lower blood sugar spike that lasted for a shorter duration.
Up_In_Smoke
Smoking Fanatic
^ I discovered the same thing early on in my T2 journey.
Cook the pasta the day before and refrigerate.
Viola - no sugar spike. :)
Cook the pasta the day before and refrigerate.
Viola - no sugar spike. :)
I'd like to know more about this as well. My wife is diabetic and I'm pre-diabetic, therefore we've been eating low carb with occasional small portions of potatoes, pasta, etc.You bieng our resident microbiologist
Also, on the carbs discussion, what do you think about resistant starch? I have read for some time that preparing and refrigerating starches like pasta, rice and beans before eating converts a lot of the "sweet" carbs in to resistant carbs which is digested differently, and actually beneficial for gut health.
I ran across this in a BBC article I stumbled on somehow. The author regularly ate at a nearby Italian place (like 5 times a week) and wondered why he didn't get fat eating pasta, essentially all week long. He also wondered how they could get a plate to his table in less time than it takes to typically boil most pastas. When he asked the server, she told him all the pasta is boiled al dente the day before, then portioned and refrigerated. When ordered the pasta is dropped in boiling water for about a minute, drained and served.
He got the staff to agree to an experiment, with half eating the pre-boiled pasta, and the other half eating freshly boiled pasta, then started monitoring blood sugar levels (by what method I cant recall). Those eating the pre-boiled and refrigerated overnight pasta had a much lower blood sugar spike that lasted for a shorter duration.
Olive oil is a fruit oil-not a seed oil. As long as it is cold pressed extra virgin olive oil, and it is pure and the real deal, not adulterer, it is fine. As are Avocado oil and coconut oil.
Yes, this is true. Some starches become resistant starches when you cool them after they are cooked. And the short reheat makes then even more so, as long as the temp of the starch does not return to above around 180*F (I think?) Just warm them to 140-150ish. And never in the microwave. That won't work.You bieng our resident microbiologist
Also, on the carbs discussion, what do you think about resistant starch? I have read for some time that preparing and refrigerating starches like pasta, rice and beans before eating converts a lot of the "sweet" carbs in to resistant carbs which is digested differently, and actually beneficial for gut health.
I ran across this in a BBC article I stumbled on somehow. The author regularly ate at a nearby Italian place (like 5 times a week) and wondered why he didn't get fat eating pasta, essentially all week long. He also wondered how they could get a plate to his table in less time than it takes to typically boil most pastas. When he asked the server, she told him all the pasta is boiled al dente the day before, then portioned and refrigerated. When ordered the pasta is dropped in boiling water for about a minute, drained and served.
He got the staff to agree to an experiment, with half eating the pre-boiled pasta, and the other half eating freshly boiled pasta, then started monitoring blood sugar levels (by what method I cant recall). Those eating the pre-boiled and refrigerated overnight pasta had a much lower blood sugar spike that lasted for a shorter duration.
There is one other oil that is acceptable, but it is hard to find. And that is cold first pressed canola oil. Made like olive oil, but it is Canola. It is pricey thought. All other Canola oil is no good.
As long as you get the flax seed oil from flax seeds, it is fine. Eat it the way nature intended. When you eat the seed to get the oil, you get a lot of phytochemicals, anti-oxidants, micro minerals, and other nutrients. The oil inside the seed is protected by nature from oxidation, once extracted through processing, that protection is eliminated.
Charlene G
Newbie
Yes, they did get it right! That is the bariatric food pyramid right there. Protein, protein, and more protein, plus veggies--no sugars and high starch food.I am talking about getting the Food Pyramid Right!
The new guidelines recommend adults consume 1.2 to 1.6 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight per day. This is a substantial increase compared with the old baseline recommendation of roughly 0.8 grams per kilogram.
View attachment 729956
RG
WHAT THEY ARE SAYING: Trump Administration Puts Real Food First in Dietary Guidelines
The Trump Administration’s updated Dietary Guidelines represent the most significant reset of federal nutrition policy in decades. By prioritizing realwww.whitehouse.gov
Remember when the margarine producers in the 1960's and 1970's told us butter caused cancer? Yeah, that fake oil product has to be better for us, right?
I have taken a new stance a few years ago....there is no food you can cook at home that comes anywhere near as harmful to you as what you get in a restaurant. I think someone should sue the fast food industry...because there is no food in that garbage they sell. Every restaurant I have been roped into going to the last couple of years is all cooked by chef Mike-row-wave. processed food, reheated and served as fresh. Unless you go to a place where you see the food cooked-I'll bet it came out of a box.
My next beef is with the school system. What the hell happened to feeding your kid breakfast before they go to school? No offence to Mrs Obama, but really. A teenager cannot function on an 80 calorie yogurt cup and an apple.
Don't even get me started on that plant based crap! Excessive salt and sugar to make something taste like beef or chicken . Goodness gracious, just eat a piece of real chicken-you wont die.
I tell my friends I'm on the Plant Based Diet.........Meat Packing Plant.
Sorry for the rant.
chef k-dude
Master of the Pit
I did read that potatoes may not remain "resistant starch" when reheated, and Inda here brings up heating methods and max reheating temps. So, more research may be needed. It doesn't seem like a priority in the food science field though...I mean, how could they sell you drugs if simply dong this could reduce blood sugar!?
Doing this doesn't hurt anything though, so might as well make it a habit. I'm trying to do it, using up all the carby stuff I have on hand...pasta, rice, etc..
If you have blood sugar monitors, you could always try an experiment like they story I told above. See what actually happens in your body.
There IS another alternative, at least for pasta. There are some really good LC pastas that really are very close to the real thing. Until I discovered them, I had gone to making my own LC pasta which was not bad, better than that nasty konjac but not as good as these kinds
Problem is they can run $10-$20 a pound. You can buy a lot of protein for that!
There's an online shop called Netrition I used to buy from. A lot of LC stuff to be had, some good some not so good but all of it expensive! I stopped buying when we went off LC...well, I have now put back on 10lbs in a year (Granted, its been a very tough year overall) after maintaining my weight well after LC for a few years; suddenly, last year, the great "swell up" happened so now we are making some different decisions trying to drop that weight again. May not be keto, but trying to make better food choices in the long run while eating through some of the stuff we already have to be rid of it.
There are decent LC breads out there too. Schmidt 4-6-7 not only makes the sliced bread but now, bagels, English muffins, hot dog buns, sandwich/hamburger buns and hoagie rolls, Problem is there is only one grocery store here that carries all of them (Giant Food) and those shelves are hit and miss, gotta buy it when you see it!
And that was the biggest thing the release of this inverted pyramid came with, telling us to eat whole foods, not processed foods. Some of the restaurant food out there is fine (I dont consider fast food a "restaurant"), but many have started to use Sysco Systems and U.S. Foods, etc. as a supplier. It's why so many places that used to not be bad are now all tasting the same...mediocre. It's all packaged, pre-cooked, portioned, etc..
Part of how we got fat again was entertaining my dad after mom died last May. He loves to eat out, and I was kind of in a "screw it" mode when she died and didn't feel like cooking anymore. So we started eating out regularly with my dad to keep him busy on nights he didn't have other activities. He went back down to snowbird in FLA (lives next door in summer here) and we actually felt relief that we didn't have to go out to eat! I mean, after a while there are only so many restaurants to go here and most of them are not stellar. We had grown tired of them, and now my interest in cooking is starting to come back.
School lunches...man...when I was a kid I was envious of those "poor kids whose mom apparently cant feed them". My mom didn't cook stuff like eggs and breakfast meats for me...cant remember exactly what she fed me, like with everything else, I loved my mom (once I turned 18 and left home!) but she wasn't much of a cook, so I literally dont have those "mom used to make the best" memories. I probably got cereal, maybe oatmeal. But getting off that school bus and walking in to the school to smell all that great food, cinnamon toast, etc....man I wanted to be "poor" so bad so I could get that stuff!
I'm confused on "seed oil" is bad for you but one of the most heavily GMO products as rape (Canola) seed oil is ok.
Eating seeds that have oil= good
Eating oil extracted from seeds through processing=Bad
That is as simple as I can make it. To really grasp it, one needs to understand how seed oils are made, how reactive they are (with unsaturated double bonds) and how heat and pressure accelerate the chemical degradation of these double bonds creating hundreds of side reactions and resulting toxic molecules. The processing of them is why they are bad. You can find non-GMO cold pressed Canola oil. it is out there, but it is pricey. I just rather eat tallow and lard....way cheaper.
Good info I will add here:
FYI, another benefit of cooling starches to create resistant starches is that these resistant starches will feed the gut microbes that make Butyrate in the colon which feeds the colon cells and promotes a healthy gut.
So, I asked Grok:You bieng our resident microbiologist
Also, on the carbs discussion, what do you think about resistant starch? I have read for some time that preparing and refrigerating starches like pasta, rice and beans before eating converts a lot of the "sweet" carbs in to resistant carbs which is digested differently, and actually beneficial for gut health.
I ran across this in a BBC article I stumbled on somehow. The author regularly ate at a nearby Italian place (like 5 times a week) and wondered why he didn't get fat eating pasta, essentially all week long. He also wondered how they could get a plate to his table in less time than it takes to typically boil most pastas. When he asked the server, she told him all the pasta is boiled al dente the day before, then portioned and refrigerated. When ordered the pasta is dropped in boiling water for about a minute, drained and served.
He got the staff to agree to an experiment, with half eating the pre-boiled pasta, and the other half eating freshly boiled pasta, then started monitoring blood sugar levels (by what method I cant recall). Those eating the pre-boiled and refrigerated overnight pasta had a much lower blood sugar spike that lasted for a shorter duration.
You said,"gently reheated—boosts resistant starch." explain this. what is the max. reheat temperature? or is there one?
Grok:
The phrase **"gently reheated—boosts resistant starch"** refers to the common (and well-supported) practice of **cooking starchy foods** (like potatoes, rice, pasta, or legumes), **cooling them** (usually in the fridge overnight or longer), and then **reheating them gently** before eating. This process creates and helps preserve **Type 3 resistant starch** (RS3, also called retrograded starch), which acts like dietary fiber in the gut: it resists digestion in the small intestine, reaches the colon, and feeds butyrate-producing bacteria (as we discussed earlier for gut health benefits).
### Why Reheating Can "Boost" or Preserve RS
When you cook starches, the granules gelatinize (swell and become digestible). Cooling triggers **retrogradation**: the starch molecules (especially amylose) realign into crystalline structures that enzymes can't easily break down → forming RS3.
- **Reheating** after cooling doesn't fully reverse this retrogradation in many cases — especially for the more stable amylose-based crystals.
- In fact, studies show that reheated (previously cooled) rice, potatoes, or pasta often retain **higher RS levels** than freshly cooked versions, leading to a **lower glycemic response** (slower blood sugar rise) and more fiber-like benefits.
- Some research even suggests mild reheating can slightly enhance RS formation in certain foods (e.g., via additional structural changes during microwave reheating).
This is why many sources recommend the "cook → cool → gently reheat" cycle for maximizing gut-friendly resistant starch without eating everything cold.
### Is There a Maximum Reheat Temperature?
There isn't a single strict universal cutoff, as it varies by food type (e.g., rice vs. potatoes), starch composition (amylose vs. amylopectin ratio), moisture content, and reheating method — but here's the practical guidance from studies:
- **General safe range for good RS retention** — Reheat to an internal temperature of **around 140–165°F (60–74°C)** or less for most benefits. This is hot enough to make the food enjoyable and safe (kills bacteria per food safety guidelines) but not hot enough to fully gelatinize (dissolve) the retrograded crystals.
- Many sources (including diabetes management guides) suggest reheating to **165°F (74°C)** — the USDA safe minimum for reheating leftovers — and note that RS levels remain significantly higher than in freshly cooked food.
- Lower temps (e.g., 50–80°C / 122–176°F) preserve more RS, especially in rice (where reheating to ~73°C via microwave can even increase RS in high-moisture samples).
- **Higher temps risk more loss**:
- Above ~130–140°F (55–60°C), some amylopectin-based retrograded structures (less stable) start to break down → partial loss of RS.
- At 90°C (194°F) or higher (e.g., boiling again or high-heat frying), retrograded amylose is more heat-stable (only ~25% loss), but overall RS can drop substantially in some foods like potatoes (where reheating often reduces RS nearly back to fresh levels due to lower amylose content).
- Boiling or very high-heat methods (e.g., deep frying) tend to destroy more RS than gentle methods.
- **Best reheating methods to preserve RS**:
- **Microwave** (short bursts, medium power, to ~73°C center temp) — Often increases or maintains RS, especially in rice with adequate moisture.
- **Gentle oven/stovetop** (low heat, covered, with a splash of water to prevent drying) — Keeps it below excessive temps.
- **Avoid** high-heat frying, boiling again, or prolonged high temps — these can reverse more retrogradation.
### Food-Specific Notes
- **Rice** (especially high-amylose varieties like Basmati): Very forgiving — reheating after 24h cooling at 4°C retains or even boosts RS; studies show lower glycemic impact vs. fresh.
- **Potatoes**: More variable — cooling boosts RS a lot, but reheating can reduce it more than in rice (due to lower amylose). Eat cold (salads) for max RS, or reheat gently.
- **Pasta**: Similar to rice — cooling + gentle reheat preserves good RS levels.
Bottom line: **Gently reheated** means warming just enough to enjoy (hot but not scorching) without overdoing it — aim for 140–165°F internal temp, and you'll keep most of the gut-boosting resistant starch benefits from the cooling step. Food safety always comes first, so don't skip proper reheating if storing leftovers! If you're experimenting for butyrate/gut health, track how you feel or monitor blood sugar if relevant. Let me know if you want recipe ideas!
So Grok says it is OK to reheat the cold starch in the microwave. That was some bad information I got from somebody. But I got the temps. close....
*reheat potatoes to a lower temp. to retain resistant starches. rice and pasta can handle slightly higher temps.
*reheat potatoes to a lower temp. to retain resistant starches. rice and pasta can handle slightly higher temps.
Now I am craving Calabrian Nduja and red bell pepper sauce with pasta! On deck this week for sure (with pasta pre cooked day before...)
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