Thermoworks RFX First Impressions

[SmoqueBBQ]

Curios what others are seeing for battery life with the meat probes? What is a fair test? What should the settings be? I put a fully charged one in the refrigerator, it lasted 10 hours and was inactive. I left one on the table fully charged, it warned of low battery just under 12 hours? Refrigerator I can understand being a low number of hours, on the table I would have like to seen 4 times as long.

I am using 4 probes for over a week now in a commercial setting. The gateway is plugged directly into power so I'm not having issues there. The probes, however, are a totally different story. Of the four probes, two of them don't make a 12 hour cook. One used to go 9-10 hours, but now only does 4-5 before dying and going inactive. Another will only go about 9 hours before going inactive at 0% battery. The other two seem to last the entire 12 hours, but I get low battery alerts and they are at 10% when removing. Given they advertised 50 hour battery life, this is extremely disappointing. Anything less than 14 hours is useless to me. They obviously did not do enough product testing in real world scenarios or involve anyone in a commercial environment. There's no way these ship out like this if they did. I love Thermoworks products, but I have so far been extremely disappointed with this one. I currently have a case in with Thermoworks with a lot of testing data that I did to try and see if I could come up with any patterns.

 

[Fraser]

schlotz said:
Selected 5 minutes again, ran a 17 minute, showed readings at least once a minute – 1 reading for each thermometer in the probe and the average reading. So 5 readings were logged for the session at least once every minute. Did not have anything to do the temperature interval or the 5 minutes I selected on the gateway.

Remember, the setting in the Gateway reports the reading from the Pro-Series Probe (PSP) according to the interval setting (15, 30 or 60 seconds. Or 5 minutes as you found from the web!! Great job!). That’s it, no other transmissions implied. That interval does not affect the probe(s). It would be interesting to see how often the Gateway transmits PSP temps in your data.
The probe behavior you state is in line with TW’s specs: each probe will transmit upon TBTI delta or 60 seconds whichever is sooner.
That said, the question seems to be if the probe(s) battery is sufficient for 3,600 or so transmissions. So for, say a 10hour cook we’d expect at least 3600 transmissions (10h=3600seconds, assuming only 1 transmission per 60 seconds) but we know it’d really be way more due to the temperature change triggering the TBTI. A brisket might go 40F to 210F, a delta of 170*; triggering TBTI at least 57 times (with a TBTI setting of 3sec). 57 additional transmissions.
According to your data, this seems to be happening, you’re getting 3955 transmissions from your probe.

Seems to me their algorithm for triggering a probe transmission possibly is triggering prematurely (likely), or the robustness of their probe batteries is not as adequate as they surmise.

Edit: Sorry, I seem to be incapable of inserting a quote properly

 

[bwana_don]

schlotz said:
Selected 5 minutes again, ran a 17 minute, showed readings at least once a minute – 1 reading for each thermometer in the probe and the average reading. So 5 readings were logged for the session at least once every minute. Did not have anything to do the temperature interval or the 5 minutes I selected on the gateway.

Remember, the setting in the Gateway reports the reading from the Pro-Series Probe (PSP) according to the interval setting (15, 30 or 60 seconds. Or 5 minutes as you found from the web!! Great job!). That’s it, no other transmissions implied. That interval does not affect the probe(s). It would be interesting to see how often the Gateway transmits PSP temps in your data.
The probe behavior you state is in line with TW’s specs: each probe will transmit upon TBTI delta or 60 seconds whichever is sooner.
That said, the question seems to be if the probe(s) battery is sufficient for 3,600 or so transmissions. So for, say a 10hour cook we’d expect at least 3600 transmissions (10h=3600seconds, assuming only 1 transmission per 60 seconds) but we know it’d really be way more due to the temperature change triggering the TBTI. A brisket might go 40F to 210F, a delta of 170*; triggering TBTI at least 57 times (with a TBTI setting of 3sec). 57 additional transmissions.
According to your data, this seems to be happening, you’re getting 3955 transmissions from your probe.

Seems to me their algorithm for triggering a probe transmission possibly is triggering prematurely (likely), or the robustness of their probe batteries is not as adequate as they surmise.

Edit: Sorry, I seem to be incapable of inserting a quote properly

I would agree that the setting for the gateway is for the pro-series probe as stated on my android. But it states it is for all devices on the web interface. Thermoworks tech support stated the app interfaces needed to be updated to be consistent and it is for all devices. At this point I am seeing enough issues that I am not taking anything for granted. Big assumption, but assuming 2 development teams, 1 for smart devices, 1 for web, they could be walking over each other with different interpretations of the specifications, getting different change orders, etc. I can make a case where there should be two configurable settings as you point out, but that would contradict what TW support sent me.

After seeing the post by smoque-BBQ using it commercially, I agree that they are not ready for prime time. Batteries losing that much capacity in a week, is very concerning. It made me look up the warranty routine. There is nothing straight forward like 1 year, etc. What they state related to returns is " If your equipment appears to be malfunctioning, please call our Technical Support team for troubleshooting assistance and for additional warranty, repair, and replacement options."

While looking for warranty, I looked at the RFX MEAT operating instructions that came in the box. This is now the most concerning thing I have found. Look carefully at the bottom of the first page page on yours. On mine there is a white label that has been applied to the bottom. Took a little doing but I was able to make it all out. It covers up a table showing the following:

Update Rate , 10 min. charge (80%) , 20 min. charge (100%)
Sear Mode, 4 hrs 30 min , 5 hrs 45 min
10 sec , 5 hrs 36 min , 7 hrs
15 sec , 8 hrs , 10 hrs
30 sec , 20 hrs , 25 hrs
60 sec , 52 hrs , 65 hrs

Talk about a cover up!

Is this why the shipments were delayed, they were putting labels over what interval settings in the documentation?

Also makes me think there were different options intended and they have had some changes and the development teams are not synchronized. Strange it does not mention the dynamic temperature interval, has 5 settings - that do not match anything in the application interfaces.

I just rewatched a video from 3 months ago - Everthing you need to know about RFX Meat. It mentions a 1 second interval option (he was doing a sear). That option is not available now, might have been the "Sear Mode".

Also begs the question, why wouldn't they just reprint their documentation so someone like me wouldn't find it - already over budget, they have bigger problems, use your own imagination.

They are about to lose me as a customer forever after finding this one.

They really need to share some detail about what is wrong, how they intend to resolve, why the documentation was covered up, etc. If they can fix their problems and have a better story to tell in the end, I could live with that. Right now I feel like I am part of a beta release, they are dealing with known issues and went to market anyway.

 

[jimboc22]

On mine there is a white label that has been applied to the bottom. Took a little doing but I was able to make it all out.

I noticed the sticker when I first received it, I shined a light behind it to read what was under it. I figured they covered it because they changed the send intervals from time to temp after the manual was printed.

 

[dr k]

I noticed the sticker when I first received it, I shined a light behind it to read what was under it. I figured they covered it because they changed the send intervals from time to temp after the manual was printed.

TW has the new release post on FB that has hesitant purchasers waiting for feedback first, people with great anticipation of receiving the RFX notified of their prepaid order shipping and people that have used it once but not enough to notice the battery life, charge to 85% on gateway that means it's fully charged but not in instructions and concerns on this thread. I mentioned on FB TW post that TW was referred to SMF Meat Thermometer forum threads on the RFX batteries, wrong product pics, sticker over copy in instructions and repeat TW customers disappointments with RFX.

 

[ifitsdeadsmokeit]

Not looking good for a black friday order from me.

 

[schlotz]

Finally got around to testing yesterday afternoon. Probe one started at 100% and went inactive w/0% charge in 8h 52m, probe two went for 8h 40m. Both probes were just sitting on the counter and set to 60sec reporting. So far this indicates the RFX probes are not viable for low and slow smoking. I did test the probe batteries which were just barely reading 1.5v. Popped two new duracells in them that read over 1.5v and let the probes recharge overnight. Restarted the tests an hour ago. Will see if there is any change.

 

[geek with fire]

Finally got around to testing yesterday afternoon. Probe one started at 100% and went inactive w/0% charge in 8h 52m, probe two went for 8h 40m. Both probes were just sitting on the counter and set to 60sec reporting. So far this indicates the RFX probes are not viable for low and slow smoking. I did test the probe batteries which were just barely reading 1.5v. Popped two new duracells in them that read over 1.5v and let the probes recharge overnight. Restarted the tests an hour ago. Will see if there is any change.

What was the poll rate set to?

 

[schlotz]

one probe was set to 1ºF the other was 2ºF. Interesting, the 2º probe lasted less time, 8h 40m. Of course both were just sitting on the counter showing the same temp.

 

[jimboc22]

I just got an email from them this morning titled "Early RFX Reviews Are in... Chefs Love It". Where are the reviews? I want to read what others think, but there are no reviews on their website yet. This forum thread is the only place I can find with any real info.

 

[schlotz]

Reported my findings to Thermoworks tech support a few minutes ago. They are very interested at getting to the bottom of why the probes are not lasting as long as they should. From what I gathered they are attempting to determine if the issue can be resolved with software or hardware. He did promise to get back with me and indicated they might also call back to gather more info. I additionally sent him a direct link to this thread so they can read about other people's findings. FYI, my second testing this morning with fresh Duracell batteries that recharged the probes overnight, show both probes down to 10% from 100 after 6h 20m. Not good.

 

[schlotz]

Final on test two: probe one lasted 8h 20m, probe two lasted 8h 3m

 

[bwana_don]

Final on test two: probe one lasted 8h 20m, probe two lasted 8h 3m

They told me on Monday they were actively working the issue, thanked me for the data, asked for the serial numbers of the probes. I also provided the additional data from my second test. I was told it would take a few days to resolve 5 days have gone by and from what you posted they are interested, but not any closer. Honestly, I find that hard to believe. I did a lot of technical deep dives in my career to get to root cause related to hardware, software and database issue. They have very few variables to deal with on this one.

In addition they asked for my serial numbers, all the data is in the cloud, they can see everything they need to see to know what is happening. With that information getting to root cause should be straightforward. They should have been able to replicate the issue within their environment multiple times by now as well.

From a really good proactive customer service perspective - They could generate a report to tell them how many alerted at 10% and then went inactive. Literally, they could be running that report daily and proactively reaching out to everyone who experienced the issue and let them know they are working it.

My next big concern is how long will the RFX meat last..how many times can we recharge it before the battery degrades. On at least one previous post, it looked like they were starting to degrade, by hours within the first week of use.

I will be asking what the return process/options look like on Monday if they don't have a satisfactory update.

 

[Fraser]

RFX SV Cook
Tonight I SV reheated some brisket to chop for tacos. This was my second cook using the RFX. For those more interested in the RFX rather than my cooking, here’s the salient stuff:
The Gateway was at 92% and unplugged. PSPTIR=60sec (irrelevant, since not using the PSP).
The RFX MEAT (probe) 100%. Out of habit, I replaced the supplied AAA battery and allowed probe to charge. TBTI set to 1.0F.

I set up the SV to preheat to 155F with frozen brisket in to thaw sufficient to insert probe, about 45 minutes. After inserting the probe and re-vac sealing, back in the pool. About 2h45m the brisket was at 150F, Gateway: 92% (who cares); Probe: 100%. At 4 1/2 hours it was dinner time, brisket holding at 157F, Probe: 80%. Gateway: 85%. RFX was delicious and very happy with dinner. Or other way around.

This cook (and to some extent, the previous cook) ticks one of my boxes in evaluating the RFX. Definitive? Hardly.
As I’ve stated, I have three primary reasons for being interested in wireless: In no particular order 1) SV. I’ve not found a practical way to monitor the temperature of meats in the vac bags while they heat. This is a departure from my cooking on pits or grills and I’m not satisfied with the guesswork.
A subset of immersion-style cooking would be braising. While tethered probes are certainly applicable, a wireless probe would be preferable if durable.
2) Rotisserie. Stopping the rotisserie for spot-checks is disruptive and can easily miss the “sweet spot”, especially for chicken breast, pork loin and the like.
Possibly related to high-heat rotisserie is direct grilling. I feel this is more an endurance test of the probe rather than a source of valuable data; while it’s comforting to know the probe will withstand intense live fire, I don’t see cooking to that data.
3) Frying. While tethered probes work well in shallow or even deep frying, they are cumbersome, although I’ll likely continue to use tethered probes for deep-frying the holiday turkey; wired probes are much cheaper to replace.

I think it’s illustrative what is not on that list. Wireless isn’t for everything (if the reader is searching for only one thermo, buy a ThermaPen). Like choosing cooking methods, I prefer the appropriate therm tool for the cook. For pizza I like an IR gun, for 20-hour brisket cooks, 10-14 hour pork butt cooks and the like I reach for the Signals, when I throw some birds on the drum, I use Billows/Signals. Low&slow is not a breaker for me, but I’m not a commercial or comp cook. Certainly room for other perspectives.

Certainly there will be more cooks to come; other tests to fail or pass. Personally, I won’t be using my MEATER2+ anymore.

 

[SmoqueBBQ]

They told me on Monday they were actively working the issue, thanked me for the data, asked fore the serial numbers of the probes. I also provided the additional data from my second test. I was told it would take a few days to resolve 5 days have gone by and from what you posted they are interested, but not any closer. Honestly, I find that hard to believe. I did a lot of technical deep dives in my career to get to root cause related to hardware, software and database issue. They have very few variables to deal with on this one.

In addition they asked for my serial numbers, all the data is in the cloud, they can see everything they need to see to know what is happening. With that information getting to root cause should be straightforward. They should have been able to replicate the issue within their environment multiple times by now as well.

From a really good proactive customer service perspective - They could generate a report to tell them how many alerted at 10% and then went inactive. Literally, they could be running that report daily and proactively reaching out to everyone who experienced the issue and let them know they are working it.

My next big concern is how long will the RFX meat will last..how many times can we recharge it before the battery degrades. On at least one previous post, it looked like they were starting to degrade, by hours within the first week if use.

I wi be asking what the return procees/options look like on Monday if they don't have a satisfactory update.

I’ve used mine daily on 12 cooks for the last 9 evenings. Battery degradation has already happened and it’s significant. I was getting 9-10 hours with a couple of my probes and 12 on the other two. Last night’s cook I got 3.25 hours out of one before it died. Down from 4.5 the night before that. The other 3 were 6.75 hours, 7 hours and one that failed to transmit at all even though it said 100%.

 

[jimboc22]

As I’ve stated, I have three primary reasons for being interested in wireless: In no particular order 1) SV. I’ve not found a practical way to monitor the temperature of meats in the vac bags while they heat. This is a departure from my cooking on pits or grills and I’m not satisfied with the guesswork.
A subset of immersion-style cooking would be braising. While tethered probes are certainly applicable, a wireless probe would be preferable if durable.
2) Rotisserie. Stopping the rotisserie for spot-checks is disruptive and can easily miss the “sweet spot”, especially for chicken breast, pork loin and the like.
Possibly related to high-heat rotisserie is direct grilling. I feel this is more an endurance test of the probe rather than a source of valuable data; while it’s comforting to know the probe will withstand intense live fire, I don’t see cooking to that data.
3) Frying. While tethered probes work well in shallow or even deep frying, they are cumbersome, although I’ll likely continue to use tethered probes for deep-frying the holiday turkey; wired probes are much cheaper to replace.

I purchased the RFX probes mainly for the same 3 reasons you mentioned above, sv, rotisserie, and frying, but I was looking forward to using during long smokes as well. I agree that every tool has its place, and wireless maybe just isn't meant for low and slow, but when 50 hour battery life is advertised and we are only getting ~8 hours, it's frustrating.

For giggles I ran a test today. Before I left for work I turned on the gateway and took out the probes and left them on my desk at home. One probe was set to 1 degree intervals and one set to 3 degree intervals. 1 degree probe lasted 7 hrs and 22 minutes and 3 degree probe lasted 8 hours and 52 minutes. The temperature in my house rose from 65 to 72 during that time.
Edit - gateway low battery alarm just went off (85-15%) after 12 1/2 hours.

I think what's not helping is that we waited months after preorder, then another month+ with the delay from September to October/November to finally receive them. And now they are not working as advertised.

 

[jimboc22]

I’ve used mine daily on 12 cooks for the last 9 evenings. Battery degradation has already happened and it’s significant. I was getting 9-10 hours with a couple of my probes and 12 on the other two. Last night’s cook I got 3.25 hours out of one before it died. Down from 4.5 the night before that. The other 3 were 6.75 hours, 7 hours and one that failed to transmit at all even though it said 100%.

Oh boy, that's truly worrisome.

 

[geek with fire]

Ours arrived. Still learning the new hardware and processes. But a big red flag is how to know if the probe is being updated/communicating. Had a smoke tube flair under a pan of beans. Signals wired probe caught it. RFX stayed at it's low temp. Was off easily 30 degrees. Not a great start. But too early to tell.

And we have the RFX Gateway ambient and Signals ambient right beside each other in the pit. Exact same model of probes used on each. Consistently 4-7 degrees (F) off at any given time. Gateway always higher.

 

[bwana_don]

From the land of you can’t make this up.

I finally used my RFX for actually cooking, I have tested the duration of the probes of couple of times.

Turned on the gateway, pulled a probe out, put in a cajun meatloaf that was almost done. It was only in it for 11 minutes. Probe worked fine.

Turned off the gateway.

Told my wife, it really is pretty cool, with no wires and how easy it is to use.

After I was done eating, washed the probe and wanted to see what the battery life was at. I tried to turn on the gateway that had been fully charged, showed green battery in the app when I turned it off and still does.

Gateway will not turn on at all – no light, does not show active, status “This device is not connected to the WI-FI” in the app.

The really weird thing – as I keep trying to power it on, the last seen time changes when I put when I turn on bluetooth. For some reason it wants a new wi-fi password, but that ends with a setup failed. I have plugged it back into power, that is not making any difference.

Now I have a gateway that will not go active and 4 probes that are useless without a gateway after using it for just 1 cook.

Can’t wait for Monday to hear TW reasons or interest in why this has occurred.

It will be interesting to see if this starts happening to others as well or if my gateway is a one off.

I wanted to try another test related to the probes as well, do they discharge because they are always trying to send something, even when the gateway is not turned on?

 

[schlotz]

If you now have the gateway to come on (?) maybe try blowing away the app on your phone and reinstalling it? Worth a shot...