Theoretical Discussion

[deanoaz]

I am not really a newbie, but just a little beyond that.  I am ready to spread my wings and create my own sauces, but I am hesitating.  I want to create my own recipes, but the basis seems to be taking someones recipe and modifying it, which may not be all that bad.

Would anyone be interested in discussing the basic causes for results we are seeking?  Very simple examples:

What causes a good bark.......sugar, juices, bourbon, what else?,

What is the basis for a good finish sauce for pulled pork or other cut of meat......BBQ sauce, thin sugary liquid, 

   tomato-based vs. vinegary or both depending on U.S. location?

What makes up a good brine for each cut of meat and why.......salt, sugar, both, spices, etc?

What should be put in the 2-phase of 3-2-1, when you foil and close up the meat.......BBQ sauces, a  thin liquid

   for good steaming of the meat in the foil enclosure?

What are best ingredients for obtaining desired results and why?

It just is an idea I had and if its been done before or nobody is really interested in participating, just tell me to bug off; I have a tough skin and won't go off in a corner and cry.  I'd really like to hear opinions and "outside the envelope" ideas, with theory behind it.

 

 

[mdboatbum]

What causes a good bark.......sugar, juices, bourbon, what else?, Sugar, time and the proper humidity levels.

What is the basis for a good finish sauce for pulled pork or other cut of meat......BBQ sauce, thin sugary liquid, 

   tomato-based vs. vinegary or both depending on U.S. location? Whatever tastes best to you is best. I like a thin vinegary finishing sauce when it's pulled, then a bit of a thicker traditional sauce when I'm making my sandwich.

What makes up a good brine for each cut of meat and why.......salt, sugar, both, spices, etc? Brine, by definition, is salt water. Its purpose is to, via osmosis, pull water and salt INTO the meat. A neat side benefit is that if you add other flavors, they get pulled in along with the water and salt. Again, whatever tastes best to you is best. I like simple, usually just salt water on everything so as not to blur the taste of the meat. What I will say here is that in order to get INTO the meat, whatever it is must be IN SOLUTION, so you'll get the best results by simmering your brine to get the flavors out of the spices and melt the salt and sugar. Always cool it to below 40˚f before adding the meat.

What should be put in the 2-phase of 3-2-1, when you foil and close up the meat.......BBQ sauces, a  thin liquid

   for good steaming of the meat in the foil enclosure? Any acidic liquid is what gets the job done here. You're braising the meat to break down connective tissue. All flavorings, butter, sugar etc... aren't really accomplishing anything other than, well...flavoring the ribs. So again, if you like the flavor, it's a winner.

What are best ingredients for obtaining desired results and why? How do you like your coffee and why? Ask 10 different people this and you'll likely get 10 different answers.

As for sauces, starting with an established recipe is a GREAT idea. It gives you the proper proportions of liquid, sweetener, tomato sauce etc... Once you have the proportions down to deliver a consistency and basic flavor that works, then you can tweak things to your liking. There are certain "trick" ingredients that will bounce off certain flavors in weird ways, changing things without being obvious. Some of the earthier spices are good examples. Cinnamon and clove in small amounts will just sort of broaden the base of the flavor, kinda making it taste more complex without making it taste like apple pie. Ginger is a good one to cut through fatty or heavy flavors without the ginger itself being noticed. Nutmeg will, as was pointed out in the "Cumin Killer" thread earlier this week, sort of even the playing field between stronger flavors and weaker ones.

I realize you were just citing basic examples of what you were looking for, but I took it as a good starting point. I really like the idea of this thread, as it's good to know the whys and wherefores of what works and what doesn't.

 

[diesel]

I think this is a good thread also.  Mdboatbum has done a good job of responding.  I have found that trials and time are what is needed to create good Q.  It is really up to you as to what makes a good bbq sauce or how you like your ribs. 

Heck,  how many different types of wood are there to smoke with?  I use a combo of hickory and oak along with some apple at the end of the smoke.  If I have a lot of apple I use it the whole time, except for starting the fire. 

I found a rub that I liked after about 5 years of adjusting but it came from a basic recipe.

I don't use the 3-2-1 method anymore.  Just wrap and cooler when the ribs are done to my preference.  I have been adding some local honey to them for the last hour or so.. and that has just been the last few times I have cooked.  It really makes for a nice flavor.

BBQ sauce I think I could use just about all of them.  I like thick, thin, vinegar, tomato.. just depends on the day I think.. most of the time I don't even put sauce on my ribs. 

Oh well.  Hope my 2 cents was of value.

aaron.

 

[deanoaz]

This is and excellent start.........MdBoatBum, I really appreciate you providing a good starting point and Diesel for adding to a it with more good ideas.

My plan now is to take each of the points and fire questions or develop on them in separate posts.  That way the focus can be on that point and avoid clutter with other things.  With each one I will document what I think I am hearing and what is in agreement.  I hope no one is sensitive, as I might poke hard at assumptions that might appear erroneous. 

Lets have some fun and try to develop some helpful ideas.  One thing I would like to ask is that if you post input, please come back and participate in the further development of that input.

 

 

[deanoaz]

• So, anything with sugar in it (i.e. all sugars, liquor, beer/ale, juices, soft drinks, etc.) could be candidates for coatings (rubs, sprays, etc.)....correct?
• By time you mean by leaving the meat in the smoker longer, you will continue to build bark?
• What's the tried and true way to apply the above to develop the best bark?
• By humidity level, I assume you mean water pan or no water pan?  Do you lower the capability to build bark if you have the water pan in the smoker?
• Also, can you build bark by having a sugar-based liquid in the water pan?
• This brings up a terminology question.  I have seen posts that state bark only refers to what is built up on ribs.  My assumption is that bark can probably be built up on anything.  Thoughts??

Stick with me guys, this is beginning to develop into fun!

 

[deanoaz]

 

 

[cliffcarter]

• 1 So, anything with sugar in it (i.e. all sugars, liquor, beer/ale, juices, soft drinks, etc.) could be candidates for coatings (rubs, sprays, etc.)....correct?
• 2 By time you mean by leaving the meat in the smoker longer, you will continue to build bark?
• 3 What's the tried and true way to apply the above to develop the best bark?
• 4 By humidity level, I assume you mean water pan or no water pan?  Do you lower the capability to build bark if you have the water pan in the smoker?
• 5 Also, can you build bark by having a sugar-based liquid in the water pan?
• 6 This brings up a terminology question.  I have seen posts that state bark only refers to what is built up on ribs.  My assumption is that bark can probably be built up on anything.  Thoughts??

Stick with me guys, this is beginning to develop into fun!

1. Yes,sugar is a key ingredient in bark formation in most instances, but any ingredient that carmelizes will help in forming bark.

2. The longer you cook it the more the sugars will carmelize.

3. For me the answer to this is turbinado sugar as the most plentiful ingredient by volume in my rub.

4. When I BBQ on the Weber kettle I use a water pan sometimes, and at others not, and I do not notice a difference in bark formation, so IMHO the answer is no, it makes no difference. 

5. No, by evaporating the liquid in the water pan you will only increase the sugar concentration in the remaining liquid.

6. Pork butt has bark, brisket has bark, pork loin has bark, chicken can have bark, I grill turkey burgers using a rub I concocted for chicken, it gives them a very tasty bark.

 

[deanoaz]

Okay, from here I am going to start creating new threads for specific topics.  I'm going to start with BARK.  Over time I will try and develop ideas into other  topics starting with the input I have/get and create a new thread as they expand.  Hopefully, that way, the topics won't get to cluttered together.  This is going to take time, so I will develop them based on my time available or other volunteers who might step up and handle a specific topic.  Do I see any hands raised???

 

 

 

[pit 4 brains]

all sugars, liquor, beer/ale, 

No sugars there. They have been consumed and transformed by yeast to precious alcohol..

 

[deanoaz]

No sugars there. They have been consumed and transformed by yeast to precious alcohol..

You are completely right there.  They are only there for taste.

 

[jarjarchef]

I'm in for the ride. When I can get to a PC I will add some of my thoughts.

 

[oldschoolbbq]

Deanoaz, Hello and welcome. I do things a bit diferently than a lot of them do here... basically , yes the the above statements are tried and true; however, I tend to close my smoker and leave it shut until the temp is right(Butts are forgiving and you shouldn't worry about them). I do not wrap, and get a lot of great Bark , I think "wrapping" destroyes the Bark(it is more like Braising the meat and any flavor - i.e.-Bourbon , Stock ,etc.).

I leave my Smoker lid  shut , unless there's an emergency or need to put something else on(that's why I have more than one Smoker), the top 'stays' shut until temp. is reached (probe therms.)

The Butt won't get dry and will get done a little bit earlier ; when you're lookin' , you ain't cookin'

As for a good basic starter Sauce ,I use my own recipe and the Family loves it , can't make enough.I add to it when I want heat,more spices, or whatever.

The main ingredient of a good Smoke is "Patience" , and lot's of it...sit back, relax , have a drink and start a conversation and watch your temps.- Butts are notorious for stalls.

Have fun and...

 

[deanoaz]

See my last post under Theoretical Discussion - BARK.