Snack stick temps stall.

[SmokinEdge]

Ok, after a day postponement I just ground the beef for tomorrows sticks. Two grinds, big plate than small. LEM #8 Big Bite. I froze all the parts first, and perhaps didn't have the beef frozen 'quite' enough. First time through, no ram needed, all the pieces fell into the machine. But second time through, I had to stuff the coarse grind through to run the fine plate.

Keep the meat cold. I run the same grinder and will say that a single pass is fine and a double grind is not needed.

Also, do not freeze the grinder head and parts. This will just cause the meat to stick to the metal, just like your tongue on a flag pole in winter. Instead make sure the meat is cold ~32* BUT most importantly make sure you lubricate the flange on the back of the auger before assembling. There is a nylon bushing in the grinder body that the grinder rides on in the back, nylon and steel equals friction and obviously heat. You can lube with Crisco but grinder assembly lube is best.

 

[BugHunter]

Yes... The second time through the grinder you will always have to use the pusher to stuff it down into the auger...

Myself... I just run the cut up chunks through the fine plate right away... Meat partially frozen (very cold) ...

As for mixing... Yes you do want to try to keep as cold as possible... I then put it in the fridge (after mixing) overnight to let the cure do it's thing... Take out of fridge and set on counter at least a couple of hours (or more) to come up to room temp before stuffing... Give it another mix before putting in the stuffer...

Watched the 2 Guys video I was told to look at and he put his grindings back in the freezer and ran them again, and made a point to say, "don't use that pusher". Well, his has a bigger throat so ok, I had to use it. But if I'd had it at a colder temp, maybe it would have been fluffy enough to go through without help. Idk.

I've been taking it out of the fridge and just starting on stuffing as soon as I can get things set up. Mixing limited to me making balls of meat out of it so there's no air pockets. I'll give it another mix tomorrow then which will also help loosen it some. Not that the new Lem stuffer cares, it'll stuff it through that tube like a fire hose.

Keep the meat cold. I run the same grinder and will say that a single pass is fine and a double grind is not needed.

Also, do not freeze the grinder head and parts. This will just cause the meat to stick to the metal, just like your tongue on a flag pole in winter. Instead make sure the meat is cold ~32* BUT most importantly make sure you lubricate the flange on the back of the auger before assembling. There is a nylon bushing in the grinder body that the grinder rides on in the back, nylon and steel equals friction and obviously heat. You can lube with Crisco but grinder assembly lube is best.
View attachment 736116

I have CIP film for that sitting here in the kitchen. It's a synthetic food grade grease for brewing stuff, but I'm sure it'll work fine. Mine came apart virtually spotless. I stopped it before it quit pushing just because I'd put more grindings back through to make sure everything had gone through the small plate. But, only about 1-1/2" at the front of the auger had meat in there, and the rest of the auger and body were spotless. Not so much as a speck of meat in there. I thought it was pretty cool that it came apart that clean. Had I left it run, it would have warmed that last meat that was in it and I"m sure made a mess.

I saw that bushing before I began and I figured it looked like Delrin to me. Typically that's supposed to be considered self lubricating. I use that for bearing material at work on some things. Also have Nylatron there I could make a replacement out of and that'll never wear out. But it sure won't hurt to lube it before assembling that auger. Thanks.

I got tied up for a while and left the meat in the freezer a little longer than I should, so it definitely will need the mix tomorrow as some hunks are so frozen I had a hard time breaking them up. Holy cow that was cold.

Can I just use the dough hook and stand mixer for that? If not, I might make a mixer... This freezing stuff is not so fun. lol.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Can I just use the dough hook and stand mixer for that? If not, I might make a mixer... This freezing stuff is not so fun. lol.

You can use the stand mixer. The paddle works best but give it all a go.
For the cold hand mixing, use knit cotton gloves on your hands covered with latex gloves. This stops the cold getting to your hands and stops the heat from your hands warming the meat. There are reasons for the cold,

 

[Fueling Around]

If my first grind gets too warm, I roll it into logs and send to the freezer. I keep them about the same size as the grinder throat. they drop right in and self feed unless in the freezer too long.

...
I saw that bushing before I began and I figured it looked like Delrin to me. Typically that's supposed to be considered self lubricating. I use that for bearing material at work on some things. Also have Nylatron there I could make a replacement out of and that'll never wear out. But it sure won't hurt to lube it before assembling that auger. Thanks.
...

Both Delrin and Nylatron are self lubing to save themselves, not the metal they contact. They will eat metal without adding additional lubricant. Food grade silicone greases the metal parts and saves them from the plastic. There are better lubes, but alas not food rated.

 

[BugHunter]

If my first grind gets too warm, I roll it into logs and send to the freezer. I keep them about the same size as the grinder throat. they drop right in and self feed unless in the freezer too long.

Both Delrin and Nylatron are self lubing to save themselves, not the metal they contact. They will eat metal without adding additional lubricant. Food grade silicone greases the metal parts and saves them from the plastic. There are better lubes, but alas not food rated.

Good idea on the rolling.

Looked at the manual and yep, you're right, they do say lube that. I would have simply made a new one at work, but if it was starting to eat the auger, I'd TIG some stellite on the back face and then grind that back down. THAT won't wear! Lol.

Got these hanging and waiting. Gotta go fire up the smoker. Ended up with just over 50g of unstuffed in the stuffer. Much better than last time. Cooked that up and that's WAY different in taste and texture vs the store bought ground beef. Wasn't expecting that. The meat I chose was the cheapest thing I could find at the TWO stores I went to. Chuck roast @9.99/lb. Got a ~2.3# roast and ground er up, and had 386g fat in the freezer from the last brisket I trimmed so that went into it. % is the %, but I'd guess around 25% fat. So, 1.471KG of meat, and I'll put the recipe here in case anyone wan'ts to chime in that there's an issue with it or something to look out for. The only water used was enough to dissolve the cure, maybe 1 or so oz, warm. No other liquids. Total weight appears to be 1.914KG or 4.22#, minus that taste test from the stuffer. I'll add pics.

 

[BugHunter]

And how about these probes? What are people's thoughts on putting them in right from the start? I bought a set of these things that just came Friday. It's a mighty big probe to stuff in a snack stick.

 

[zwiller]

Good luck! Some folks swear on using whole muscle being better than pre ground but I am too cheap to try IMO the ULTIMATE sausage mix is lean beef with pork fat (fat back). Saved fat trim from a pork butt is perfect. That said, I typically use 50/50 GB/PB for my runs.

SS are tough to monitor. I would try and run one at 45deg or something like that. It's a great learning tool. After you get some experience, you will go by feel more than temps. I like adding water but lots of people frown on it. No need to dissolve the cure it will mix up just fine. Water or not is a preference. Up to 10% is just fine.

 

[BugHunter]

Good luck! Some folks swear on using whole muscle being better than pre ground but I am too cheap to try IMO the ULTIMATE sausage mix is lean beef with pork fat (fat back). Saved fat trim from a pork butt is perfect. That said, I typically use 50/50 GB/PB for my runs.

SS are tough to monitor. I would try and run one at 45deg or something like that. It's a great learning tool. After you get some experience, you will go by feel more than temps. I like adding water but lots of people frown on it. No need to dissolve the cure it will mix up just fine. Water or not is a preference. Up to 10% is just fine.

Thanks.
I started making fresh sausage last fall and I borrowed a grinder from my sister. Well, factually, they came here and we made it together. We both bought pigs from a local farmer and had the sausage meat left for use to do. They were given a small table top grinder, which works perfectly. I sharpened the blades and plates at work on the surface grinder, and they came to make sausage. A bit small for that much (but worked fine), and I really wanted one of my own, I bought one a few weeks ago. That's the only reason I did this grinding, I mean pre-ground from the store (and fresh) has been exactly 1/2 the money I paid for this crappy looking roast... If you knew the beef we have around here...

I've been told that pork belly is the thing to keep on hand for adding fat, which I will as soon as we go to the market (about a 45 min drive) and get more meat. For now, I'm using up what I've got and experimenting some, trying to ruin as few of these as possible.

Too curious with the new toy, I put all 4 probes in. Did 1 hour set to 100F (chamber temp extremely close to perfect). All 4 probes read 93. Bumped up to 125, aiming for 130, but always try to avoid overshoot. They're on hour 2 now, external smoke gizmo smok'n away. Vent 100% open, and door 100% closed. Figuring to stay that way if the temps remain equal. Will swap the 2 rods of them front to back later if the mood strikes me. Also going to add water as I am certain I did that on one batch that turned out much better.

I figured that 1 oz of water isn't hurting anything so why not dissolve the cure. As an experiment, I could see me adding a bunch of food coloring to that in order to see how well it gets mixed. It's probably mixed just fine, and blue or green sticks might be a little off putting to some, but it'd be fun. Always learn'n!

Bumped up for the second hour, and still all 4 probes say the same, now at 102.

 

[BugHunter]

I do have another question...

Any of you guys ever experiment with baking soda in the meat mix for these things? I never make ground beef/pork/chicken without it. Not sure if it would make the sticks too tender and too juicy?

I will offer up one tip I learned the hard way. In one batch I thought I'd get cute and add some roasted sesame oil to them. I bet a tsp or two of that will wake up the Asian flavor...

Ahhh, no..... DO NOT add a non-saturated fat to anything like a sausage. Certainly not one that you don't want the oil coming out of. That's a recipe for disaster. It binds with the saturated fat in the sticks (beef/pork fat that congeals to a solid when cold) and keeps it in suspension so you've got a wonderful greasy mess. Do not add that stuff. Roast some sesame seeds and add those if need be. No oil..

 

[SmokinEdge]

I do have another question...

Any of you guys ever experiment with baking soda in the meat mix for these things? I never make ground beef/pork/chicken without it. Not sure if it would make the sticks too tender and too juicy?

I will offer up one tip I learned the hard way. In one batch I thought I'd get cute and add some roasted sesame oil to them. I bet a tsp or two of that will wake up the Asian flavor...

Ahhh, no..... DO NOT add a non-saturated fat to anything like a sausage. Certainly not one that you don't want the oil coming out of. That's a recipe for disaster. It binds with the saturated fat in the sticks (beef/pork fat that congeals to a solid when cold) and keeps it in suspension so you've got a wonderful greasy mess. Do not add that stuff. Roast some sesame seeds and add those if need be. No oil..

I personally use baking soda to velvet meats and always add it to soaking water for natural casings, but I don’t care for in ground, won’t hurt anything though

 

[BugHunter]

You mean not in ground meat you're going to smoke, or not in ground meat in the kitchen? Cause in the kitchen I always use it if I'm browning some ground beef or really anything. And for shrimp, I never cook a shrimp without it. I can see why someone might not want to do it in a snack stick, but, by the same token I would also be willing to try it. Mostly I find it helps meat not expel moisture, so that might be opposite what I want in a stick. For the money I've thrown away so far, may as well try everything. :D

Here's another question. People spray these with water to "Stop the carry over cooking". Gotta be honest, if I open the door that temp of the sticks drops instantly, so I have to wonder if the real mechanism is stopping carry over, or if it's to hydrate the outside with water and simply get them easier to handle. Mine won't raise another .001 degrees if I have my smoker shut off, like it just did... :rollseyes: I had set it for 6 hours and got sidetracked, when I looked the temps were dropping, knew immediately what I'd done. So it's coming back up now. But, while I know everyone sprays them (me too so far), I find that questionable, at least from the standpoint of 'stopping carry over cooking".

 

[SmokinEdge]

You mean not in ground meat you're going to smoke, or not in ground meat in the kitchen? Cause in the kitchen I always use it if I'm browning some ground beef or really anything. And for shrimp, I never cook a shrimp without it. I can see why someone might not want to do it in a snack stick, but, by the same token I would also be willing to try it. Mostly I find it helps meat not expel moisture, so that might be opposite what I want in a stick. For the money I've thrown away so far, may as well try everything. :D

Here's another question. People spray these with water to "Stop the carry over cooking". Gotta be honest, if I open the door that temp of the sticks drops instantly, so I have to wonder if the real mechanism is stopping carry over, or if it's to hydrate the outside with water and simply get them easier to handle. Mine won't raise another .001 degrees if I have my smoker shut off, like it just did... :rollseyes: I had set it for 6 hours and got sidetracked, when I looked the temps were dropping, knew immediately what I'd done. So it's coming back up now. But, while I know everyone sprays them (me too so far), I find that questionable, at least from the standpoint of 'stopping carry over cooking".

I don’t like the taste of bs in my ground meat. Pretty much anything whole muscle I don’t mind it.

As for the water bath on sticks, I don’t. I air cool them only. The water bath helps stop or lessen the wrinkles but I like wrinkles so I air dry.

On larger diameter sausage it is good to water soak but sticks don’t have enough thermal mass in my opinion.

 

[indaswamp]

Spraying sausages stops carry over evaporation...i.e. more wrinkled sausages. Plus the water does help to plump them back up, so it is really a double effect.

 

[indaswamp]

The only time I use baking soda in a sausage is when using a very acidic ingredient like pineapple. You will not get a good bind if the sausage pH is low. The sausage will be crumbly.

 

[indaswamp]

I have used it in the water to soak casings, and I think you get better adhesion of the sausage paste to the casing upon cooking when you use baking soda in the soak water. The baking soda denatures the surface proteins slightly. This is the velveting effect. Same thing happens on meat.

 

[BugHunter]

Got it, thanks guys.

Ok, these are out and sprayed (just at the sink, there's only 4 lbs). I'll post up the last images from the Inkbird app, sticks, etc.

These turned out the best of what I've done so far. I won't say perfect, but I could eat the whole 4 lbs now.

Issues:
A few spots have what I will say is loose casing. Not sure what's happening there. Temps never went too high or even close to too high. It's so soon after removing maybe this is nothing. I don't see any blisters of grease.

That said, these have a fair amount of liquid grease in them. Eating them before fully cooling, but it sure seems like there's a good bit of grease. But it's all through, not in spots. Again, perhaps this is just me trying them too soon.

The flavor is insane. Wow, first, I love the recipe so that's great. But the beef is better, better texture, not overcooked (I don't think), etc. I'll see in an hour if the 'oil' I'm seeing in them becomes just fat in the meat. They're hanging inside again, so tomorrow morning I'll see if they look any different. They did crinkle a little in the smoker, but I also made a point not to fill the casings so full this time. Not sure if that's not a problem I had before.

Anyway, many many thanks for all the tips and answers. These worked well enough I could do this again with no change and have no regrets.

PS. Door never opened except to put in boiling water in the water pan at the 3:45 point. Somewhere around 130-140 smoker temp. Did not rotate inside, sensors said temps were close enough I felt no need. Any / all advice welcome, thanks again!

 

[BugHunter]

I would add, I think the casings got a little tough, but maybe that will go away after a day sitting.

(edit to add).
Also, I went to the 140+ temp, not because I was afraid of 130, but because the highest they'd gotten at the lower chamber temps was 129, so with the idea that I needed 130 for 2 hours, I left them go as high as they wanted while I set the chamber to 167. They got time/temp well above the threshold in the usda paper, at which point I was satisfied.

 

[indaswamp]

A few spots have what I will say is loose casing. Not sure what's happening there.

Could be understuffing the casings...are you using natural sheep casing or synthetic collagen?

That said, these have a fair amount of liquid grease in them. Eating them before fully cooling, but it sure seems like there's a good bit of grease. But it's all through, not in spots.

Remember that temp during the grinding is paramount when it comes to fat integrity. grinding warm fat will lead to fat smear in the grinder, and once the fat is smeared, nothing can undo that. And when you smoke them, they will grease out on you. Also, above 165*F more than 30 minutes to an hour can lead to fat out. Especially if you have hot spots in your smokehouse or the ends hang too low near the heat. I had a GEN 1 MES. Got tired of all the issues trying to smoke sausages, and built a large outhouse style smoker that can handle 100-120# of sausages at a time. Now I do not have that problem of uneven heat overcooking the bottoms of my sausages.

 

[BugHunter]

Could be understuffing the casings...are you using natural sheep casing or synthetic collagen?

Synthetic collagen. In tubes, 19mm. Will probably convert permanently to 21mm when I use these up since my horn won't fit a 19mm without pushing it on loose like a natural casing. Creates other issues for sure.

Remember that temp during the grinding is paramount when it comes to fat integrity. grinding warm fat will lead to fat smear in the grinder, and once the fat is smeared, nothing can undo that. And when you smoke them, they will grease out on you. Also, above 165*F more than 30 minutes to an hour can lead to fat out. Especially if you have hot spots in your smokehouse or the ends hang too low near the heat. I had a GEN 1 MES. Got tired of all the issues trying to smoke sausages, and built a large outhouse style smoker that can handle 100-120# of sausages at a time. Now I do not have that problem of uneven heat overcooking the bottoms of my sausages.

My grinding temp was really low, and even the grinder was frozen. I did use a good bit of fat, and looking back now, perhaps I was at the high limit of that 15-30%. I figured 25%, but the roast had fat in that also, though not much.

I can live with the MES having some small problems, as long as it's not making stuff like the last couple months. I'm unlikely to build anything larger, just because I won't do large volumes. If making a controller becomes a desire, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. For now, I think it does a really nice job on roasts and things, provided you don't stack one above another and it drips on the lower ones... :(

The oil situation seems to be going away as they cool completely. They're a bit 'soft' now. Hard to describe, but think 'spongy' sort of. Again, so soon after coming out, who knows. The casings are definitely binding better now too.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Everyone new at this game wants instant gratification, be patient, let the meat rest, cool and reconstitute.