Smoke Ring

[s2k9k]

Dutch, he said the IT was 167* at the thickest part.

 

[aya8442005]

My pit has custom temp gauges (2) of them and a digital temp which i use to check the meat and the pit both read acurately. I think it was the wood peach not really sure it tasted really good smokey but just no smoke ring.

 

[Dutch]

I have a question about curing salt, if i cure my meat with curing salt before i cook it will it give a bigger smoke ring. Yes or no

The addition of curing salt will give more nitrites/nitrates to the meat so in theory, yes. A lot depends on the prep of the meat. I always try to get my rub on the meat the night before a smoke; this allows the flavors and salt to penetrate the meat more so than applying the rub to the meat just before smoking.  I haven't used curing salt in my rubs and I manage to get a decent ring on my briskets.

Take a look at this link-it will take you to a post that I did awhile back-the featured meat is a couple of briskets along with some beer butt chickens and a turkey roll. You can see the smoke ring on the meat. Keep in mind that is a wood fired pit.

 

[aya8442005]

Do you all recommend using two different woods when smoking a brisket or is one enough.

 

[chowderpants]

one type of wood is fine.

 

[forluvofsmoke]

O---------------K,

I'm still thinking you're cooking at way too high of temps, and as Dutch stated, meat that is allowed to temper or warm-up prior to cooking has less time to develop a smoke ring, due to reaching 140* I/T that much faster. To be fully cooked in the short time-frame you mentioned is not probable...167* in the point (thickest part) would probably translate to around ~180* in the flat (thinnest part). The flat would have been finished for slicing temps at that point (with most briskets, some need a bit higher). Here's where I have a problem understanding the finished temps: if the point was 167* and assuming (flat temp not specified) that the flat was at or near 180*, this is not possible with chamber/grate temps of 190-200* in this short of a time frame. It would also cause a very dry flat-cut of brisket, being it is pretty lean in the muscle, but would require many, many more hours to reach that finished temp.

I've made cured heat-treated semi-dried sausages with up to 3lb chubs which are cold, warm, then hot smoked. With 180* max chamber temp towards the end and I/Ts around 135-140*, the internal temp rise is extremely slow (painfully, to be more accurate), taking several hours to climb from just 135-140* to the finished temp of 160*, and all this is happening with meat that is already warmed through quite well. It all comes down to temperature differentials between the cooking chamber and desired finished internal temp of the meat: the higher the temp differential, the less time it takes to equalize; the lower the temp differential, the longer it takes to equalize.

That said, thermometer accuracy (translating to excessive chamber temps) and/or placement were not conducive to achieve proper cooking of the brisket per your finished temp reading. Chamber/grate temps where the brisket was positioned must have been way off the charts in comparison to what we refer to as low and slow, and this would also fall right in line with cooking at such a high rate that little or no smoke ring was developed...fast cooking = far less or no smoke ring.

---

Most analog thermometers do not tolerate abuse very well at all, and it doesn't take much to throw their accuracy right out the window. Vibration from vehicle mounted cookers being transported, as well as portable/patio models being hauled or moved manually in your yard, for example, and especially those subjected to shock from being dropped or stuck by another object should all be considered suspect for needing calibration or verification.

Aya8442005, here's where I'd start, if I were in your boat:

http://www.hi-tm.com/Documents/Calib-boil.html

Be sure that your thermometers are as accurate as possible. If they cannot be calibrated (non-adjustable), then you can make a note of how far off they are and add or subtract that amount from the thermometer reading to reach an accurate temperature (verified). If they do come out as still being accurate, then, I'd have to suspect a prep method such as application of a fat/oil to adhere the rub to the meat as being the culprit to lack of smoke ring development. Nothing else makes any sense to me at this point.

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Type of woods used for firing or smoke wood will not kill the smoke ring, although some species may seem to generate a more pronounced smoke ring than others, and some produce a deeper, darker color on the bark, but none will prevent it from taking place.

Also, brisket is one the few meats that needs to be fully cooked to get tender, well above the 160-170* range with typical cooking methods. It's a very tough cut, from muscles that are used by the animal for locomotion with every step they take...lots of connective tissues/collogen. In order to achieve a tender brisket, it needs to be cooked slowly to allow for melting of these connective tissues, and if cooked too quickly, it will still be tough, regardless of finished temperatures and moisture content.

I don't know what else to tell ya, brother, but definitely start with the thermometers, then your prep method.

Good luck!

Eric

 

[aya8442005]

Great info thanks everyone i will post the brisket when i cook it this weekend also will calibrate temp gauges. Thanks again.

 

[s2k9k]

I'm very confused. How did the "thread starter" change? and the original first post is gone. How can a thread be credited to someone else for starting it?

 

[forluvofsmoke]

I'm very confused. How did the "thread starter" change? and the original first post is gone. How can a thread be credited to someone else for starting it?

Yep, I reported the opening post with a description, so hopefully a moderator can straighten it out.

Eric

 

[philh]

What kind of a smoker did you use?

Electric, Propane or Wood or Charcol?

 

[i is a moose]

"Smoke ring" is a deceptive term. The red nitrate ring on barbecued meats is created by combustion gases reacting with the myoglobin to create naturally-occurring nitrates in the few millimeters of meat closest to the surface.

It has no taste or texture, nor is it a marker of your skills, or the smokiness of the meat it's just the candle on the cake.

That said, certain smokers cause the ring more easily. Charcoal smokers produce the most combustion gases, and are therefore a guaranteed source of smoke-ringed foods. Propane smokers produce some of the necessary gases, and will create a smaller smoke ring. Electric smokers don't combust any fuels, so they don't produce any gasses. There are some gasses produced by the wood burning, but not enough to penetrate the meat's surface and create nitrates.

If you're using an electric or a gas smoker, and want to guarantee a good ring o' red, add some charcoal to your smoke box, it'll create the necessary gases to help you see red.

This isn't a universal truth, either. Excess fat on the surface of the meat will inhibit the smoke ring, or smoking at too hot a temperature will cook the surface of the meat too quickly, and break down the myoglobin before it can react and create that ring.

Hope this helps!

 

[barrelcooker]

Hello, i smoked a brisket 10lbs @ 190-200 degrees for 11 hrs using red oak with bits of peach wood. When i cut the meat by the way was tender and taste great but no smoke ring at all. Does any one know if maybe the peach over powered the oak and no smoke ring was created. I have a big pit able to make 12-15 briskets. Thanks

i havny finished reading this yhread but i cooked brisket just the day before 14.6 pounds and i had no smoke ring. I asked a bbq restaurant owner i know and he asked if i ised oil before my rub. He insisted that is should only use salt or water next time i smoke a brisket. The rub with moisten itself by drawing out myowater from the meat. When u put oil on meat it acts as a barrier for the smoke ring to penitrate.great bbq does not always have a smoke ring ... but it does look cool and pro.

 

[barrelcooker]

I have a question about curing salt, if i cure my meat with curing salt before i cook it will it give a bigger smoke ring. Yes or no

in my research using curing salt will give you the biggest smoke ring possible because its filled with soduim nitrite/nitrate. Useing curing salt u can create a smoke ring with or without smoke. So adding smoke and curing salt will create a deeper pink/red ring. My very next brisket ill be using curing salt,rub no oil low heat at first for an hour then bump to 250-275 pull at 195 rest. Will rise to 205.

 

[crankybuzzard]

in my research using curing salt will give you the biggest smoke ring possible because its filled with soduim nitrite/nitrate. Useing curing salt u can create a smoke ring with or without smoke. So adding smoke and curing salt will create a deeper pink/red ring. My very next brisket ill be using curing salt,rub no oil low heat at first for an hour then bump to 250-275 pull at 195 rest. Will rise to 205.

You do realize that the use of the curing salts will require you to measure out an amount that will not be harmful to those that eat it, don't you?  If you choose to fake a smoke ring, please rinse the curing salt from the exterior of the brisket before you do a final rub and smoke.

Too much nittit

 

[crankybuzzard]

Darn phone! Posting from a parking lot!Too much nitrite and nitrate on your product can and will make people ill. Yes, what you're proposing will work, but it is t a smoke ring, it's a ring made due to the short term exposure of the curing agent to heat.

 

[barrelcooker]

Yeah i knew i prob said too much lol