I am not sure this will make a difference but I thought I would ask. I am making Kabanosy sticks. Instructions say to cut the meat into 2 in cubes and cure with salt and cure for 48 to 72 hours. Well I forgot and cut the meat into 3/4 in to 1 in cubes. Is this a problem? Should I cut the time down to 48 hrs instead of 60 or 72 hours? Thanks. Barry
Slight curing mistake?
- Thread starter Homers1951
- Start date
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Not sure why your instructions are telling you to do that. Can you take a photo of your instructions and upload so we can see what's going on.
Usually you would cube, add the seasoning and cure and refrigerate overnight then grind and stuff
Usually you would cube, add the seasoning and cure and refrigerate overnight then grind and stuff
I would think that the amount of cure used is more important that the time it takes to cure. As long as you added the correct amount, a little extra time shouldn't matter.
The larger chunks were done to reduce the bacterial contamination on meat surfaces. Back in the old days, sanitation was not as strict as it is now and they got better results with larger chunks. You can reduce the cure time accordingly for the smaller chunks.
That's a Marianski thing . I'm actually doing it right now just put it in the fridge .
He talks about fully curing the meat before grinding .
You'll be fine . I've done the Krakow with small chunks , went 3 days . Just make sure it's mixed good , and keep the air off of it so it doesn't dry the surface .
Just put this in the fridge .
AS Chopsaw said its a Marianski thing. Page 44 of his book Polish Sausages, "Curing Meat for Sausages". Not sure I can upload a pic onto this site as I have never been able to figure it out on my own. My wife usually helps with that sort of thing. Barry
When in doubt ask. Cubing and curing is a popular method (common in some Polish circles) and many years ago saltpeter was the curing salt, it took a little longer than the modern cures, and that might be one reason? This method is found in some of the Marianski books mainly because he does like to show traditional methods. At first I thought the cube and cure method had something to do when some components were emulsified then blended with other meats, or maybe it helped with protein extraction, but I'm not too sure how many sausage makers 200 years ago took that into consideration.
I actually don't see the need for these additional steps, cure has no impact on the fat (other than the salt tenderizes it) and ground meat can cure just fine in a meat tub or even after stuffing in 24 hours. And to be honest, I feel like I get a better mix using ground meat..... so I think the choice is up to the one making sausage.
I actually don't see the need for these additional steps, cure has no impact on the fat (other than the salt tenderizes it) and ground meat can cure just fine in a meat tub or even after stuffing in 24 hours. And to be honest, I feel like I get a better mix using ground meat..... so I think the choice is up to the one making sausage.
You bring up a good point
thirdeye
...
Not necessary holding under refrigeration if using nitrites instead of nitrates....
thirdeye
...Nitrates (either potassium or sodium) need good Staphylococcus bacteria to convert to nitrites which then convert to NO2 gas and bind with the myoglobin. And since Kabanosy technically is a dried product, the meat was held under refrigeration with salt to inhibit bad bacteria and give the good bacteria a chance to increase in number sufficient for nitrate reduction.
Not necessary holding under refrigeration if using nitrites instead of nitrates....
Getting the cure % to meat weight and salt % to meat weight is way more important than if the meat is a certain cube size or ground. Smaller cubes = slightly less cure time, nothing more.
Good points indeed, but I’m pretty confident that Marianski is only referencing Polish tradition and not for nitrite/nitrate difference. His recipes list cure #1. He talks some about nitrate, but few if any recipes using it.You bring up a good point
Nitrates (either potassium or sodium) need good Staphylococcus bacteria to convert to nitrites which then convert to NO2 gas and bind with the myoglobin. And since Kabanosy technically is a dried product, the meat was held under refrigeration with salt to inhibit bad bacteria and give the good bacteria a chance to increase in number sufficient for nitrate reduction.
Not necessary holding under refrigeration if using nitrites instead of nitrates....
And it gives flavor . The phosphate injected ham can be ready to smoke in 6 or 7 days . I go 14 , and the flavor is way better than a short cure time .
Sure it does , in some formulas you have different grinds for the fat , and the meats . Coarse and fine grind gives different textures . Krakow is one example of chunks and a meat paste .
I've made the Kabanosy from his site , but it was all ground meats .
On his meats and sausages web site he talks about curing whole muscle meat chunks for Flavor .
I completely agree. Time is our friend. The Krakowska benefits greatly from that extra time. Most folks are in a rush today, but curing should be done slow and low, no hurry. Always error on the side of more time when curing meats.
Good looking meats to btw.
I'm no expert by any means . I've learned it here , that's why I joined .
H Homers1951 the picture in post 12 talking about Krakow are the chunks I cured , but still went 3 days . You can see they're smaller . It didn't need the 3 days to be fully cured , but like said above I weighed on the side of caution .
No issues . Post up your results .
H Homers1951 the picture in post 12 talking about Krakow are the chunks I cured , but still went 3 days . You can see they're smaller . It didn't need the 3 days to be fully cured , but like said above I weighed on the side of caution .
No issues . Post up your results .
Yeah, well any sausage or curing conversion here is always elevated when you are involved, thanks.
The entire process of curing/smoking takes time. It starts when you select the meat and does not finish until after any blooming, mellowing etc., is complete and you can either eat, give to friends or package for the freezer. Call it what you want.... artisan, craftmanship, or just showing off. Time is a key ingredient. A Barbecuist will brag about a 14 hour brisket, a Charcuterist will brag about a 14 day slab of bacon.... and they both are worthy of bragging.
I have always been on the fence whether to pre-cure prior to final grind, or just grind, stuff and cure in the casing.
If you pre-cure, you can get the meat really cold as it has a lower freezing point with the salt absorbed into the meat. This is especially true with fat. The meat is firmer and you get a really good particle definition when you grind. Plus, the grinding action helps to squeeze out salt soluble proteins.
No right or wrong way to do it, but as mentioned, old school fermented sausages that used potassium nitrate needed the hold time to color formation from the bacteria.
If you pre-cure, you can get the meat really cold as it has a lower freezing point with the salt absorbed into the meat. This is especially true with fat. The meat is firmer and you get a really good particle definition when you grind. Plus, the grinding action helps to squeeze out salt soluble proteins.
No right or wrong way to do it, but as mentioned, old school fermented sausages that used potassium nitrate needed the hold time to color formation from the bacteria.
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