Should have asked first. Am I going to die now?

[Mark Krenn]

How about an update on the build? I think we covered the safety issues we’ll enough!!! :)

 

[Bearcarver]

I wonder what the MSDS for Agent Orange would have said in the 60's.

Chris

We were told it was completely safe!

Agent Orange:
https://www.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProductProperty_EN_CB71307141.htm

Bear

 

[Jonok]

The 1960s predates any requirement for a MSDS, I think, but even back then, it seems like people knew that it contained dioxin, and that dioxin was nasty stuff:
https://www.nytimes.com/1983/05/05/us/dow-says-us-knew-dioxin-peril-of-agent-orange.html

 

[Bearcarver]

The 1960s predates any requirement for a MSDS, I think, but even back then, it seems like people knew that it contained dioxin, and that dioxin was nasty stuff:
https://www.nytimes.com/1983/05/05/us/dow-says-us-knew-dioxin-peril-of-agent-orange.html

Yup---Dow Chemical knew!
Soldiers didn't.

Bear

 

[Jonok]

Yup.
On the other hand, the EPA says a substance near and dear to what we do is also not at all good for us:https://www.epa.gov/burnwise/wood-smoke-and-your-health

 

[Mark Krenn]

Smoker build update please!!!! Geezus!!! This ain’t no MSDS forum!!! Come on man!!

 

[Fueling Around]

Incidental Freon (CFC) release by a non experienced person is mostly OK.
Hiss --- you step away, panic, and breathe heavily. What little Freon (any of the formulas) you inhaled is mostly gone by deep breathing. It is long gone from the rest of the plumbing.

Freon is heavier than air and can suffocate by collecting in your lungs in sufficient concentrations. You die by apoxia (displacing oxygen rich air) long before the chemical reactions by various acids.

CFC’s were actually so non-irritating to the respiratory tract that their last legal use in a consumer product was as the propellant in albuterol inhalers (for asthma)

It wasn't the only propellant, CO2 was added to trigger breathing. Freon or CFC was used to help get the albuterol deep in the lungs by the heavier than air which benefited the users that has trouble getting a deep breath.

R-12 also goes by a different name. Anyone? Halon as in fire extinguishers.

If you have a Halon Fire Extinguisher DO NOT USE IT AROUND A DIESEL ENGINE!
Halon in phosgene out. What is phosgene? Mustard gas which was used in WWI

 

[Fueling Around]

I just started a build with a 1950’s Philco fridge I bought for $30. When I was taking it apart I bent and cracked one of the refrigerant lines and it started hissing out whatever gas was in there. I thought the gas would have leaked out long ago. Is that gas harmful? And how do I go about safely removing the motor and lines?
...
Canadagrown

Sorry, refrigerant (Freon) long gone from you and system. Just unbolt the condenser and evaporator and compressor. Cut lines as needed to discard.

I cannot figure out your insulation from the photos, but appears to be fiberglass. Let it stay.

Is the interior liner painted? Paint has lead binder in those days

 

[Jonok]

Incidental Freon (CFC) release by a non experienced person is mostly OK.
Hiss --- you step away, panic, and breathe heavily. What little Freon (any of the formulas) you inhaled is mostly gone by deep breathing. It is long gone from the rest of the plumbing.

Freon is heavier than air and can suffocate by collecting in your lungs in sufficient concentrations. You die by apoxia (displacing oxygen rich air) long before the chemical reactions by various acids.


It wasn't the only propellant, CO2 was added to trigger breathing. Freon or CFC was used to help get the albuterol deep in the lungs by the heavier than air which benefited the users that has trouble getting a deep breath.

R-12 also goes by a different name. Anyone? Halon as in fire extinguishers.

If you have a Halon Fire Extinguisher DO NOT USE IT AROUND A DIESEL ENGINE!
Halon in phosgene out. What is phosgene? Mustard gas which was used in WWI

Mustard gas is C4H8Cl2S
Phosgene is COCl2
Both were used as chemical warfare agents, but they aren’t the same thing.

Carbon Tetrachloride used to be used to fight fires and one “brand” was called Halon104. That stuff definitely produced phosgene in abundance.

Halon 1211(the stuff most current “Halon” extinguishers use) hasn’t been shown to produce phosgene in the presence of combustion, though with some other chlorinated cfc’s which have been considered as replacements, it is a theoretical risk.
Feel free to read way too much about the topic here:
https://www.nist.gov/sites/default/files/documents/el/fire_research/R0000185.pdf

 

[crazzycajun]

There should be a tag inside or on the back that states what refrigerant more than likely r12. As others have stated life is good just a heads up to other’s ammonia,methyl chloride,sulfur dioxide was also used in early refrigeration. These gases are bad stuff and turn a good day bad. Please check for data tags on older fridges as far as the epa is concerned I say nuke the whales.

 

[bluewhisper]

What about that mention of electricity - would that be from a capacitor intended to help the motor on startup?

Kind of like on the old TV sets, remember how everyone warned you could get a shock from one even if it's unplugged?

 

[Jonok]

I just bought a new chest freezer for the shop, and it uses cyclopropane, which, while it probably won’t give the penguins skin cancer, will almost certainly cause a heck of a mess if I ever had a fire...

 

[Fueling Around]

Mustard gas is C4H8Cl2S
Phosgene is COCl2
Both were used as chemical warfare agents, but they aren’t the same thing.
...
Halon 1211(the stuff most current “Halon” extinguishers use) hasn’t been shown to produce phosgene in the presence of combustion, though with some other chlorinated cfc’s which have been considered as replacements, it is a theoretical risk.
...

Forget a couple of words and luckily someone caught it.

EARLY Halon fire extinguishers and suppression systems used R-12. Many Marine suppression systems still have R-12.
The R-12 suppression systems used in computer rooms is where they learned of the hydrocloric {sic} and hydroflouric {sic} acids produced with moisture (water) present that "biteme" sited

Phosgene and Mustard gas used during WWI. Different compounds, but both deadly due to the heavier than air where it got in and was difficult to get out of the lungs.

I read and understand the comments that a bunch of us zealots got carried away with the safety concerns and forgot about the build. Luckily OP started a new thread.
Perhaps we should start a new thread to address the very valid safety concerns of appliance retrofit?

-John

 

[Mark Krenn]

I just bought a new chest freezer for the shop, and it uses cyclopropane, which, while it probably won’t give the penguins skin cancer, will almost certainly cause a heck of a mess if I ever had a fire...

 

[Mark Krenn]

How is the build going?

 

[Canadagrown]

How is the build going?

Hi Mark. I replied to you in a different thread I also started. You can see pictures of my build progress in this thread I think. Do you think the insulation looks like fibreglass? I have no experience with insulation at all. All I know is that the pink stuff is fiberglass nowadays haha.