Science behind meat tenderness and juicyness

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Ash-k

Newbie
Original poster
Aug 23, 2022
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3
I have been grilling all kinds of meats for decades, however, making pastrami has always been a hit or miss for me. So, I decided to do some science experiment. I did the following:
  1. Bought a small 1.5" thick cut with decent amount of fat around it. I did not want to waste a large brisket considering everything is so expensive these days.
  2. Used the same rubs used for pastrami. I did not brine the meat because this test was about tenderness and juicyness.
  3. Put the meat in the oven at 225deg F over a tray of water for moisture.
  4. Monitored the internal temperature to reach 145, which took about three hours.
  5. Wrapped the meat in a foil and put it back in the oven at the same temperature for another two hours until internal temperature was 185.
  6. Took out the meat from the oil after cooling it for 8 hours.
It was a complete disaster. The meat was tasty but dry and hard. Before you start grilling me (no pun intended,) let me explain the reasoning for my steps. I was hoping a lower temperature over prolonged period would breakup the collagen. The water below would help in this process. Wrapping would have retained the moisture and meat would have come out very tender. It's pretty much the same process for making a pastrami. The first three to four hours would have been in a smoker instead. I had a similar failed experience with my last pastrami brisket cooking over a smoker.

So, can you please explain to me as to what went wrong so badly.
 
What cut of meat did you use? Brisket has a lot of connective tissue, which breaks down when cooked low/slow and contributes to the" juiciness." If you use a cut with little collagen, such as a steak, then you will end up with a dry piece of shoe leather.
 
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What cut of meat did you use? Brisket has a lot of connective tissue, which breaks down when cooked low/slow and contributes to the" juiciness." If you use a cut with little collagen, such as a steak, then you will end up with a dry piece of shoe leather.
Yes, it was a thick piece of steak, not a brisket. Are my temperatures right, had I used a brisket?
 
Did you buy a brisket flat? What was it's weight? And, how tender did it "feel" when it reached 185°? I typically finish by brisket, fresh or corned, to a higher internal temp.

For starters, cured meat behaves differently than fresh meat. Think of curing as a more intense brining. So over 7 to 14 days, meat will take in water and salt. One thing to note is that store bought corned briskets generally have phosphates in the curing liquid/injection, and phosphates help with moistness.

Why don't you buy a pre-corned brisket and repeat your experiment. A wrapped step is a good finish method, but steam or a pressure cooker are other options.
 
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Did you buy a brisket flat? What was it's weight? And, how tender did it "feel" when it reached 185°? I typically finish by brisket, fresh or corned, to a higher internal temp.

For starters, cured meat behaves differently than fresh meat. Think of curing as a more intense brining. So over 7 to 14 days, meat will take in water and salt. One thing to note is that store bought corned briskets generally have phosphates in the curing liquid/injection, and phosphates help with moistness.

Why don't you buy a pre-corned brisket and repeat your experiment. A wrapped step is a good finish method, but steam or a pressure cooker are other options.
No, it was a thick piece of steak basically. I think there was not much moisture in this cut to begin with. At 185, it did not feel any tender.
 
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Yes, it was a thick piece of steak, not a brisket. Are my temperatures right, had I used a brisket?

If you are using a steak or a roast & trying to make pastrami, then your temps are way off. I make pastrami with eye of round & I would suggest you lower your finish temps. If you want an easy way to make pastrami, just buy a corned beef, soak it in fresh water for a few hours & smoke it until it probes tender, probably around 200-205.
Hope this helps.
Al
 
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Did you buy a brisket flat? What was it's weight? And, how tender did it "feel" when it reached 185°? I typically finish by brisket, fresh or corned, to a higher internal temp.

For starters, cured meat behaves differently than fresh meat. Think of curing as a more intense brining. So over 7 to 14 days, meat will take in water and salt. One thing to note is that store bought corned briskets generally have phosphates in the curing liquid/injection, and phosphates help with moistness.

Why don't you buy a pre-corned brisket and repeat your experiment. A wrapped step is a good finish method, but steam or a pressure cooker are other options.
Ditto this. The briskets that I have done seem pretty rubbery with temps below 200...and it always seems to take forever for that last 5-10 degrees.
 
A real Pastrami is made from the navel, but a very fine Pastrami can be made from a brisket point. A very good mock pastrami can be made from an un-cooked packaged corned beef (soaked overnight in ice water to relieve itself of the excess salt). I will not quote my cure / smoke recipe here because of what happened last time I did that in another thread - but on a brisket point I DO use an injector for the cure. You can find pastrami rub recipes all over the internet - "Katz's Rub" is particularly perfect, but in my opinion the pastrami must rest in the fridge for 2-days once the rub is applied - thereafter it can be smoked. And wild cherry is the wood to use if you can get it.

I've smoked beaucoup pastrami and they always come out great! I love the stuff. Best of luck on your next one.
 
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