Rendered fat.....whats wrong?

[jkc64]

First I would like to thank everyone here at SMF. Without this site I wouldn't have a clue what I was doing or how safe it was.

I have made several summer sausages, snack sticks and cured sausage. Most have come out pretty good some have been real good. I follow the advice I find here on the site, measure cure watch my temps start without smoke to dry and add smoke for as long as I want. I use Lem and AC Legg seasonings as they are available local for me. Until a couple of weeks ago I have only used various mixes of ground chuck 80/20, ground round 90/10 and ground pork. A few weeks ago I received about 25lbs of ground venison no fat added. I tried sticks first 4lbs lean venison with 1lb pork fat(the hard fat off the cap on a butt) smoked as usual not exceeding 165 and all the fat rendered out. Next I wanted to try something different so I mixed up a small batch of SS, 20% of the same fat I used before. This time I wanted to try poaching I put the SS in a water bath and worked the temps up to about 160-164 till IT hit 153 and put in the ice water again all of the fat was rendered out. Both taste pretty good but are somewhat dry and crumbly, I assume this is because all the fat is gone. I use Lem 1 1/2 X 12 fibrous for the SS and Lem 17mm or local 19-21mm collagen for the sticks. The beef and beef/pork turn out good either way but the venison won't hold the fat. I use ET732 thermos that I check from time to time for accuracy. Sorry so long winded, I'm just trying to provide all relevant info so maybe someone can help with my fat issue.

Thanks,

John

 

[boykjo]

Are you seeing fat drippings below the sausages? Sounds like your not getting a good bind..... Venison has a lot of moisture which will add to shrinkage. If the venison was preveously frozen for a long period of time, it could be a reason for crumbly sausage..

how about some pics
 

 

[jkc64]

Not much fat escapes from the casing, it is pooled up between the meat and casing. I had to cut and drain. The meat is frozen and is less than a month old. It is very WET meat. I don't have any pics(I know, shame on me) What can be done to increase the bind? I would like to make something besides jerky with this meat.

John

 

[driedstick]

??? On elk and deer we never add fat when we butcher but when I do sticks or ss I do about the same, 9lbs of lean venison and 1lb of PORK SAUSGE NO SEASONING?? don't know if this would help or not but maybe it acts as a better binder, mine come out very well all the time.

I hope this helps.

 

[jkc64]

I just don't understand why the fat would melt out at such a low temp compared to other things I have made. I guess I'll have to try mixing with ground pork and see what happens. I didn't want to mix with other meat which is why I went with fat only.

Thanks

John

 

[lnmnmarty]

First I would like to thank everyone here at SMF. Without this site I wouldn't have a clue what I was doing or how safe it was.

I have made several summer sausages, snack sticks and cured sausage. Most have come out pretty good some have been real good. I follow the advice I find here on the site, measure cure watch my temps start without smoke to dry and add smoke for as long as I want. I use Lem and AC Legg seasonings as they are available local for me. Until a couple of weeks ago I have only used various mixes of ground chuck 80/20, ground round 90/10 and ground pork. A few weeks ago I received about 25lbs of ground venison no fat added. I tried sticks first 4lbs lean venison with 1lb pork fat(the hard fat off the cap on a butt) smoked as usual not exceeding 165 and all the fat rendered out. Next I wanted to try something different so I mixed up a small batch of SS, 20% of the same fat I used before. This time I wanted to try poaching I put the SS in a water bath and worked the temps up to about 160-164 till IT hit 153 and put in the ice water again all of the fat was rendered out. Both taste pretty good but are somewhat dry and crumbly, I assume this is because all the fat is gone. I use Lem 1 1/2 X 12 fibrous for the SS and Lem 17mm or local 19-21mm collagen for the sticks. The beef and beef/pork turn out good either way but the venison won't hold the fat. I use ET732 thermos that I check from time to time for accuracy. Sorry so long winded, I'm just trying to provide all relevant info so maybe someone can help with my fat issue.

Thanks,

John

Hi John, no expert here but had a similar issue with snack sticks. Ground beef chuck and added a pound or so of the hard fat from a brisket. Those were much greasier than the ones I usually make without adding fat. Maybe the hard fat has a lower melting point. Just guessing here. I never use binders and never had the fat render out except that one time and that wasn't really all that bad. Only other thing I can think of is your temp probe but you said you check it. I have heard that if you don't freeze the fat some before you grind, it will smear and render out when heated. I'm sure the experts will chime in. 

 I wish someone would help me with my fat issues 

 

[rexlan]

How are you grinding the meat and the fat.  For the sticks it probably needs to be pretty fine. 

With the deer I grind with a 3/8 or 1/2 plate - meat and fat.  Then I almost freeze it and regrind with a 7mm plate.  this makes a nicely mixed product of 80/20 venison burger which I use as a base.

I then will use ~ 70% of the venison burger and 30% pork butt for a final product.  Could try and 80/20 I guess.  I've never had any issue with this.  Can also add a little NFDM as an additional binder.

I know with the moose when I add 20% fat to the burger it still is quite dry and the meat really does not absorb the fat.  All the sting with bacon and those bits do not product a juicy venison roast ... they are always quite dry because the meat will not take the fat.

 

[jkc64]

The deer is already ground, I ground the fat(almost frozen) through a course plate(don't know the size) on an antique hand grinder then reground with the deer. Guess I can't have pure deer sausage?

 

[diggingdogfarm]

Did you grind and then mix immediately?



~Martin

 

[jkc64]

This batch I ground and cured for a day then mixed seasoning and stuffed-cooked

 

[diggingdogfarm]

Hmmmm... it usually binds better when you do that, some times frozen meat doesn't bind as well as fresh.



~Martin

 

[jkc64]

Does the bind effect how the fat reacts to temps?

 

[diggingdogfarm]

You may be getting some smearing, in that case, even with a very good bind it's a serious issue.
I looked upthread and noticed that you ground the fat separately.
Grinding the fat separately can easily lead to smear, fat doesn't go through a grinder as easily as meat does, the colder it is the worse it travels through the grinder, it tends to hang and smear.
You could try couple things.....grind the fat with the lean (preferable unground chunks)....it'll go through the grinder better and is less likely to smear or finely dice the fat when lightly frozen.
Use the best fat you can find, back fat is best.

~Martin

 

[jkc64]

I know, lots of questions. Sorry, just trying to learn. So if I manage to smear the fat before or during the mixing process it will render out easier and faster where if I can keep it in some form of chunk it will stand up to the temps better?

 

[diggingdogfarm]

Yes, exactly.
Fat is naturally enclosed in tissue and won't easily render out, smearing it out of the tissue will lead to 'fat out' of the sausage, even with a good bind.
Hard fat like back fat is the least likely to render out.



~Martin

 

[venture]

I grind fat and lean together in most applications.  Being sure everything is cold.

Did you start your heat low and gradually increase?

Got me scratchin my head here?

Good luck and good smoking.

 

[deersmoker58]

for what it's worth, i never add fat to my venison.  Have made summer sausage several times and don't have an issue with the fat rendering.  Although you said that you dont let he temp get above 165 you didn't mention what temps you start out with.  You must start at a lower temp (120) and gradually increase the temp over a period of a couple of hours.

here is the link of a thread on some i did.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/115409/venison-summer-sausage-in-mes-40

 

[jkc64]

Sounds like the smear factor got me. THANKS all for the replies. I will try a small batch with chopped fat and also try grinding fat chunks with the ground deer at the same time rather than separately and see what happens. I mentioned earlier that the deer meat is very wet much more than moist. Is this a problem? If so what should I go...add soy protein to the premix to compensate?

 

[jkc64]

for what it's worth, i never add fat to my venison.  Have made summer sausage several times and don't have an issue with the fat rendering.  Although you said that you dont let he temp get above 165 you didn't mention what temps you start out with.  You must start at a lower temp (120) and gradually increase the temp over a period of a couple of hours.

here is the link of a thread on some i did.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/115409/venison-summer-sausage-in-mes-40

Nice looking sausage. You say that you don't add any fat and don't have an issue with fat rendering. Do you mean there is no fat in the meat or that you don't add any extra? My deer was processed with no fat some processors add fat as part of the processing. I smoke in a mes 30 or mes 40 (the 40 is a new acquisition, rebuild be me) I start my temp at 100 on the controller(which means 120 to 130 lol ) then work my way up to about 165 actual(ET732) over several hours. Usually takes 7 to 10 hours to get an IT on 152 also measured with an ET732.

 

[shoneyboy]

If the meat being too wet is a real concern, I would allow it to drain in a strainer in the frig over night....Strainer sitting in a bowl to catch the drippings......Just my thought....ShoneyBoy