Please Join Me In Boycotting china imports

[capt dan]

Yep, your right, I got it at sam's about 4 yrs ago, and like I said, I have since changed my thoughts on cheaper always being in my best interest. It wasn't cheap either. I paid darn near 800 bucks for it then.

I also agree, it is very hard to buy absolutely american made. Remember american made doesn't mean made in the usa, it means made in the Americas,Canada, US, central america, and south america.

 

[smoke_chef]

Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m disappointed to see a post like this in such a great forum. However, I do believe in free speech so if the moderators chose to leave it here, I feel like I must point out some false information so that everyone is informed.

1. Capt Dan wrote “I totally agree and have already made myself and family aware, started this about a year ago. The main reason I dispise Walmart! If it wasn't for china, indonesia,and Japan, that company would not exsist!â€

Actually Capt Dan, if it weren't for millions of customers (me included) shopping their stores daily, searching for low cost products, that company wouldn't exist. I think itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s unfair to blame Wal-Mart because other people want to save money.

2. Coyote implies that it was Wal-Mart that shut down Mom and Pop shops.

Actually Coyote, Wal-Mart NEVER put a Mom and Pop shop out of business. Customers did by the consumer choices they make. Most people want to save money. If you can afford to buy 100% Made in America products, I think that's great, but donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t blame Wal-Mart for those who canâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t.

3. Willkat98 wrote “Remember how we thought the Iraqi's wanted our democracy? Guess what. They don't.â€

Willkat, Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not sure where you are getting your information from, probably CNN, your local nightly news, or maybe some research on the internet? However, I doubt if you have any actual knowledge of what Iraqiâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s want. When you generalize the whole country like that, who are you really refereeing to? Is it the terrorist groups using women and children as shields and pawns? Or is it the 5% of the country with 95% percent of the wealth and power that is not willing to allow a civilized government for fear that their corruptness will not allow them to stay in power? For, I doubt that you are referring to the VAST MAJORITY of the Iraqi population that would love to enjoy freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the pursuit of happiness and the many other “rights†that you and I were born with. Make no mistake about it… Freedom is not Free. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m “Smoke_Chef†to my friends here but at one time, I was Spc. Franklin Harp, Battery B, 1-142 FA assigned to the 1st Infantry Division while deployed in Iraq. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ve seen with my own eyes… Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ve heard with my own ears… I know first hand what the news wonâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t tell you. Itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s not that they donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t want you to know… Itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s that it wonâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t sell commercials.

4. SmokyOkie wrote “(how many of you are aware that Walmart's main purchasing offices are in BeijingChina..for real).â€

Thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s absolutely false! Again, I speak with first hand knowledge. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m a former associate of Wal-Mart who worked in the THE buying office which is 100% located in Bentonville Arkansas. There is a small (relatively speaking) office in China but their primary functions are store operations of the China stores and monitoring factory relationships and practices.

With all that said… I want it made clear that I respect the view and opinions of every American and their right to free speech, specifically the four fellow smokers that I referenced. (Even if that free speech is wrong…

(Please realize that was an attempt at humor and keeping this whole conversation light hearted))

 

[rivet]

I have to completely agree with smoke.

Buy American if you can, locally even better.

Big box stores would not thrive as they do if people didn't buy from them for their obvious benefits. Why does everyone hate a successful business?

Don't like China? Ecuador? Canada? Well then do not buy their stuff. Everything is labeled with country of origin as a Federal Regulation. Look at the label. Don't like it- don't buy it.

Simple as that.

'Nuff said.

Now let's smoke something!!!

 

[smokyokie]

More people should take a closer look at that situation like you did, the question being "always the low price, but at what cost?"

 

[smokyokie]

More people should take a closer look at that situation like you did, the question being "always the low price, but at what cost?"

 

[capt dan]

Smoke chef, I see you have a vested interest in the Walmart machine, sorry to ruffle your shorts. I don't work there nor do I need to "spin" the facts to get my point across. Many communities in our nation have seen what companies like Walmart do to our local economies/communities.

The quotes YOU phrase as false are actually your opinions, and I have mine too. You are correct buy saying to look at the country of origin, and make a decision. And thats what I try to do on as much merchandise as I can.

Walmarts goal is to undersell every single competitor, and drive them out of business, and if its vendors don't come in with the right price and packaging, they are cut from their sales list. You might sit there and tell me I am wrong, but I personall know 2 different vendors who were told to lower their profits by 5% or lose their contract. They did, and 6months later, they were told to repeat the 5 % discount, and my friends said no. They were dropped within days.

I am not going to say what product, or brand name. Thats not important, but the cutthroat business practices of that company are unamerican. I stand by that, and will never set foot in a walmart/sam's club again.I have many freinds and family who also refuse to give a single cent to that company.

Like you said above, everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and I too have kept this lighthearted as I could, to promote the thread staying alive. I think this is a great discussion.

 

[diesel fanatic]

Can't believe I'm agreeing with Capt Dan (a %&$& Red Wing Fan), but he's speaking the truth. I live 4 miles from WalMart store #2, and it's a machine here. And it's not just products from China, even here in america. Go buy a goodyear tire at walmart ... and see how many miles you get out of it. Then go buy one from a goodyear dealer, and see if the wear length is doubled. They even have goodyear making cheaper tires ONLY FOR THEM TO SELL ... you can't but that same model at a goodyear dealer.
Back in the 80's and 90's, when still living in Louisiana, walmart KILLED the small buisnesses with lower prices ... then hired the owners, then jacked up the prices. They killed whole towns!!!!
Just down the road, Walmart has a city block of computer servers that keep up with everytime you write a check, and what you purchased. That way they can tailor their sale paper or store with what you're interested in.
As I said, I live 4 miles from store #2, and havent been there for months.

 

[fireguy]

sam walton must be turning in his grave... walmart went from a low rent success story to a mondo monopoly.... I only fear this is the way of the futer... I know he wasnt thinking of this when he started the wal-marts.so sad

 

[willkat98]

Chef
You were there, and you know more than me. You are correct, we Americans have a viewpoint, in general that is guided by media, both left, right, and center, depending on the facts quoted.

But I think when I posted, I was more getting at what you said, and which I highlighted.

When it cuts down to it, I thought I was posting that to generalize the entire country of China in the initial post as a place of Arrogance and Lawlessness was the part I was initially pointing out was bad.

In pointing out the dangers of generalization, I did the same thing with the Iraqi democracy situation.

This just reinforces my point, but also points out to me that I am just as guilty as the next person for generalizing a population, based on second hand information.

Thank you for pointing this out Smoke Chef, and thank you for putting your life on the line to stand up for our rights, even my unknowledgable right to stick my foot in my mouth.

I stand corrected.

Thank you.

On a much smaller side note, unless I missed some flaming post, I think this topic under "General Discussion" has been talked about in a very courteous and consciencious manor.

Unless I missed something, no moderation has been necessary.

It is a testament that open minded people can have a topic discussed without fanning flames and feuds.

Oh wait, my pit is up to temp.

Gotta go!!

 

[pacnwsteve]

A very sensitive but respectful discussion today. There is a reason I like this forum and I appreciate everyone's input. As Americans we need to start asking a lot of honest questions, and one of those questions was posed with this thread--as a nation can we truly afford to continue to outsource our nation in the name of cheap products. I remember when Wal-Mart proudly advertised made in the USA. Now, they are all about the bottom line regardless. If we demand cheap stuff we will get what we pay for. Wal Mart makes it big because they have learned to make money off of people who have no other choice but to shop there. It's a catch 22.

So, this is not really a smoking thread but I am truly impressed with the level of discourse today. I have faith in America! Of course, the best part about bbq/smoking is it started as a way to make cheap cuts of meat taste great. This is the best place on the internet for advice on doing just that. And judging by how the economy is going these days, we'll all have a great head start on eating well through the hard times (even if that chinese pork butt costs a just a bit more). Cheers to you all.

PacNwSteve

 

[smoke_chef]

WOW... did you guys know there is a 10,000 character max to posts. I actually kind of wish that I would have never found this out. LOL

Part 1...

SmokyOkie,

I too enjoy learning of others opinions, especially when they are contrary to my own. Heck, if the whole world agreed with me, it would be a pretty boring place. Furthermore, we would probably be worse off as a society than we are now. The reason Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m disappointed to see a post like this in a forum like this because even though it says “General Discussion†I think it means about smoking stuff. I mean, even the words after general discussion say “For anything that does NOT have a special place yet. If you smoke worms then post it here and if there is enough interest it will get its' own forum soon;-)†Itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s just my opinion but I think if Jeff meant for there to be posts like this, it would have said something like “General Discussion – What ever is on your mind… throw it out there†Maybe Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m wrong?

“If it weren't for China, there wouldn't be shelves full of low cost goods.†I think this is a chicken and egg question. You know? Which came first? Personally I believe if it werenâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t for China it would be someplace else. Deeper in your post, you mention that the documentary said that 80% of Wal-Marts goods are made in China. I donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t know what the real number is. Maybe it is 80% but what I do know is that number is slowly shrinking. Other countries like Bangladesh, India, Africa, Vietnam, and others are slowly gaining on China. In fact, I think that over the next five to ten years weâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ll see India become the “new†China. The sad fact is, is that if American companies were able to be cost competitive Wal-Mart and other retailers would buy there. Think of it this way…. If Wal-Mart could stop buying anything from any other country and buy only goods made in America, they would do that. In a heartbeat! Why? That would mean that all those Americans that were getting paid to make all that stuff would have more money to spend where? Thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s right… At Wal-Mart.

All the ma& pa shops in Nowata, Oklahoma went out of business because they were unable to capitalize the way a giant can. About 5 years after Walmart put them all out of business, Walmart left leaving the town with basically no retail businesses at all. I hate to hear that things didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t work out for the people of Nowata. However, I think itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s worth repeating that Wal-Mart didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t put the ma & pa shops out of business the people of Nowata did by choosing to not shop there. Sure, I see the point you are trying to make when you say that they couldnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t capitalize the way a giant can but remember this… Wal-Mart wasnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t always a giant. Sam Walton started out with only ONE store. He WAS a ma & pop shop. It was through hard work, dedication, unending passion and the ability to get others to share in his dream that one store became two, then three, and so on. In my opinion, entrepreneurship is America at its best. The guy who works the hardest and smartest wins. Look… I hope to open my own BBQ place someday. If Famous Daveâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s or some other national chain moves in across the street itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s up to me to fight harder and smarter to keep my customers happy and loyal. If I were to fail… thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s on me, not Famous Dave. You mentioned watching those two documentaries. I challenge you to read Sam Waltonâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s autobiography called Made in America. You donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t have to believe every word but you are clearly passionate about this subject. Donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t you owe it to yourself to at least get both sides of the story?

“I'm always open to correction, but first, how long ago did you work there?â€
“Are you sure that hasn't changed since you worked there?†It was only February 1st of this year that I left. Furthermore, I now work for a vendor that sells to Wal-Mart so I go there about twice a month. I can assure you that 100% of the buyers that buy for Wal-MartU.S. and Samâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s club all work in Bentonville, Arkansas. Yes, there is an office in China. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ve been there. Any buyers that work there are buying for Wal-MartChina. There are also offices in Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Brazil, Korea ect… They may all have some buyers buying for stores in those Countries but Wal-MartU.S. is 100% bought out of the Bentonville office. There are approximately 17,000 people employed there. (Not all buyers of course)

Okay… Capt Dan,

Itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s true that I worked there. I guess thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s why you are saying that I have a vested interest in the machine? It goes deeper than that though. However, you didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t know that when you made that statement but I know work for a supplier that sells to Wal-Mart so my livelihood depends on Wal-Marts success. So do you think thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s why I posted? Do you think that I feel like I need to change your mind so you will start shopping at Wal-Mart? Personally, I think the 1.4 million shoppers that go there weekly are enough. If you shopped there, that would just be one more car in the parking lot. If everyone shopped at Wal-Mart it would be more of a zoo than it already is. From my stand point, Wal-Mart doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t need more people shopping there. They just need to make sure they keep the ones who are already there happy and everything will work out just fine for them. (and me)

Let me say too, that Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m glad to validate your story about your vendor friends. As someone who worked there recently and as a current vendor that sells to Wal-Mart, I can say that absolutely happens. I donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t know the specifics of the people you are talking about but I can say that it happens all the time. The part of the story you arenâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t telling is that there are thousands of vendors. Many vendors bidding on the same product at the same time. Sure, your friends were told to lower their cost by 5%. Did they say why? Do you think it was a number that Wal-Mart just pulled out of the air arbitrarily or do you think itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s more likely that one of their competitors was beating them on cost by 5% and to stay competitive they needed to match that cost to keep their business. So, it sounds to me like, they lowered their cost and keep their business for a time. Then, when it came time to bid for that product again, that other competitor that previously lost the business went out and worked harder and smarter to lower their cost even more. So they came to Wal-Mart with a lower cost and Wal-Mart gave your friends a chance to stay competitive once again. When they wouldnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t… or couldnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t they lost their business. Whatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s unfair about that? Thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s free enterprise. That IS the American way. Believe me… as a vendor, I face this EVERY day. I can choose to wine and cry about it or I can work harder and smarter to win the business. Come on Dan… Is the glass half empty or half full? Are we victims or are we survivors? The great thing about America is there are winners and losers and most of the time, we get to choose which one we are.

Do you think that Wal-Mart has meetings where they sit around and say “What can we do to put those ma and pa shops out of business? Or even… what can we do to put K-Mart, Target, Sears, Family Dollar, Dollar General or any other retailer out of business?†Choose to believe me or donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t… But thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s not what the meetings are about. They are however sitting around saying “What are the best products we can get at the best cost so we can provide more value to the customer?†Are you hearing me say they are Saints? Do I think they work that hard at driving down cost and providing everyday low cost items so that they can sleep better at night. No. no. no. Make no mistake about it, they are in business to make money and they do! A lot of it but because of their business model of lowering costs, they save the American people BILLIONS every year. Call it my opinion or call it a fact that was proven by Allen Greenspan and our own government or… choose not to believe it. In stead, believe what movie makers and unions want you to believe. It truly makes me no difference. I would just ask that you listen to both sides of the story before you choose to believe.

On to part 2

 

[smoke_chef]

Willkat,

You didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t stick your foot in your mouth at all. I appreciate your thought process in your original statement and appreciate that you see my view point and accept it as first hand knowledge as well. Weâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]re just two people with two opinions. God bless this Country!

Fireguy,

I agree with you that Wal-Mart has become something far more than what Mr. Sam started out to do. However, despite some of its flaws I think he would be proud of what it has become. His own son, Rob Walton and his wife has said so many times. Very recently, in fact just last week at the annual shareholders meeting that was discussed.

Diesel Fanatic,

I too live very close to store number 2. You are now the 3rd person I have found that lives in Harrison. Even though we disagree on this topic Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m sure we have a lot in common when it comes to smoking meat. We should get together sometime. Also, you are totally right about the point you make with the Goodyear tire example. But, the Goodyear tire made for Wal-Mart is going to cost less than the tire made for say… Joeâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s Tire World. I guess you would have to break down the cost per mile to see where you are getting the better deal. If we did that, we may very well find that the better value is to pay more for a higher quality tire. For easy math, lets say you buy a $50 dollar tire at Wal-Mart and go 50,000 miles but you buy a $75 dollar tire at Tire World and go 100,000 miles. Obviously, the more expensive tire is actually a better deal. Right? Right! BUT… what about that single Mom who has to work two jobs just to make ends meet each month. She spends $100 less by shopping at Wal-Mart if she buys a whole set of tires. I know.. I know.. you are saying she would actually be better off if she just bought the more expensive tires but what if she truly doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t have the extra money? What if itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s Wal-Mart tires or no transportation at all? Having the Wal-Mart option is a good thing for her right? Wal-Mart doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t force any one to shop in their stores.

Again I say that Wal-Mart didnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t kill any small business or town but Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ve beat that horse to death so Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ll leave that alone.

What city block of computer servers are you talking about? I assume you mean relatively speaking “just down the road†but you mean all the way to Bentonville? Thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s about a two hour drive but I guess it doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t really matter. What you say they do with the computers is right on. They do track your purchases. So does Target, Sears, K-Mart, and every other major retailer. In fact, gas stations and Credit Card companies do it too. Pretty much everyone that can… Is. Itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s just good marketing. If you donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t like it, you better spend cash. So far, as much as I know, they canâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t track that. (yet??)

PacNWSteve,

Right on! Whether it belongs here or not, it has remained civilized. Kudos to all who have posted. And… I agree completely about the decisions we as a nation need to be making. We have to ask some tough questions and come up with some even tougher answers. Thatâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s why I think it is more important than ever to vote this year. No matter whom your pick is… (Hopefully itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s John McCain but lets NOT start that thread.

) Itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s more than our right to vote, itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s our duty! Men and women lay down their lives so that we can do it!

Now then… What are we all smoking this weekend? Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m feeding 7 adults and 2 strapping young men for Fathers day so Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m sticking all the ribs one shelf of my smoker can hold. The other shelf is for Dutchâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s wicked baked beans. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m also throwing some steaks and ABTâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s on the grill. This is the first weekend where I felt like my smoker just isnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t big enough. Hopefully someday soon Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]ll have an upright smoker like Sebokeâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s. That thing is awesome!

 

[emtee]

I have to admit, though I'm one of the ones who thinks this is the wrong place to debate the issue, that you all have been extremely civilized to this point. It is rare to open a hot box of controversy and not have it turn into a flame war, but you've all managed so far.

This issue is so deep that there is no solution that I know of. I work for a primary aluminum smelter (we make huge blocks of raw aluminum), and most of our product goes overseas to - you guessed it- Asia or India. We employ just over 1000 people here, and if we didn't sell our metal to China, we would have no great market for it here. Yeah, I know, we should manufacture our goods over here... BUT WE DON'T now. And until the manufacturing base shifts again (hopefully to this country), I need to sell my metal to whomever needs it. Otherwise, I'm out of business, along with 999 other guys and gals.

Like I said, we are tangled up pretty well in a global conundrum.

Damn, I got into the debate.

 

[smokyokie]

Good exchange of ideas promotes a good future for all. Please join me in stomping out this terrible silencer of ideas that they call "Political Correctness"

 

[1894]

A quick google search has some good sites for those looking to spend thier $$ where they make them

http://www.madeinusa.org/

http://www.buyamerican.com/

http://www.officialusa.com/

http://www.stillmadeinusa.com/

Can we all afford to buy all USA made stuff ?, probably not.
Is the quality allways better ?, probably but not allways.
Would everyone making an effort to keep as much of our dollars here where we earn them make a difference ?, I think so , and I sleep better at night knowing I'm doing what I can.

From what I've heard ,and correct me if my facts are in error, Sam Waltons wallmart even went so far as to find US companies that were struggling and ready to give up. He helped many of those companies get new equipment and whatever else they needed and bought from them to keep jobs and mfg here at home.
Seems that since he left ,the new powers that be are only concerned with the bottom line and don't care whos pocket it comes out of.

 

[1894]

 

[smoke_chef]

SmokyOkie,

First of all, please allow me to join Capt Dan in thanking you for your service to this country and excuse me for not having done that in my earlier post. Your gratitude is appreciated but not necessary. It was my honor to serve. I would do it all again!

You make good points about the purpose and intent of a General Discussion area. Furthermore, I would venture to guess that you are right and I am wrong about this site specifically since a moderator hasnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t jumped in by now. So long as conversations stay civil (and this one certainly has) what can it hurt? My apologies.

You also make a good point about this thread starting out about China. I think Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m the one that turned it into a Wal-Mart thing. I apologize to Coyote (the original author of the thread) for that. I donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t disagree at all that our Country is in financial trouble and we need to do something about it. I just think it must go much deeper than boycotting. There will have to be major reform in unions. There would have to be substantial government assistance to get manufactures up and running again. Plus, I fear that there would be a serious shortage of workers for the manufactures to hire. I think we have to face the fact that we have become a lazy nation. To many people want something for nothing. So I would say if you (metaphorically “youâ€) are going to go the extra mile to seek out made in the U.S.A products and spend extra money that you would also want to be writing your congressmen and demanding change as well. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not saying you (meaning you specifically) arenâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m just saying itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s going to take a major movement to fix a major problem.

SmokyOkie wrote:
“Any other nation will always have difficulty competing with the Chinese until they start using forced and prison labor the way that the Chinese do. The facts on this are well documented as well. All goods are a lot cheaper when you don't have to pay a living wage to the people that manufacture them.

So, once again my question: "Always the lowest price at what true cost?".

Anyone educated in the trade of purchasing is taught that lowest price is rarely best price. A lot Americans are seeking to educate the masses to that fact.â€

I canâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t speak for any other retailer but as for Wal-Mart I know that they have in place today (maybe not always… I couldnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t possibly know that) very strict rules about the labor force their suppliers use. As mentioned earlier, I am now a supplier that sells to Wal-Mart and they visit our factories randomly and if we were caught with forced labor, child labor or prison labor our business with them would stop immediately and permanently. As far as I know, and I think I can say with confidence, no supplier would take that risk.

Your modified golden rule seems like a defeatist attitude. Would you say that once in power always in power? I donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t think so. I control my own destiny. If I encounter people with poor values or ethics itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s up to me to go over, under, or around them. If they change the rules as the game goes along I either change them back or play by the new rules but I still fight to win. Just the way I look at things I guess?

As for the buying office, I went their today. I had business with one of the buyers I deal with regularly. Still 100% in Bentonville, AR.

You and I agree on a lot more than we think. Obviously, we both (all of us that have posted) love this great country God so blessed us to be born in. I guess we will never agree about Wal-Mart. I guess itâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]s just fun to hate the big guy? I see way way more good than bad. We donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t have to agree on that.

I'm glad we have had this thread. Thanks to all.

 

[capt dan]

quote by Smokyokie:
The author of the thread seems to be joing a swiftly growing movement toward taking out country back from China, and yes, I believe that if you will check your facts, China fiscally owns the US. They hold not only the majority , but a very large majority of our national debt. That coupled with the fact that they sell us the majority of our retail manufactured goods adds up to the harsh reality that this situation will only continue to worsen if the American public doesn't wake up soon and do something to change that. At the rate we're going we don't have to worry about the USSR invading us the way it was feared all throughout the cold war. We will only need to wait until we as a nation are bankrupt, and China comes to foreclose. end quote.

That is so true, and I can't believe we have let this happen to us.A country that can't even treat its people better than animals is loaning the USA billions of dollars to pay interest on out deficit!
One better than that, Our president gives the chineese a huge gift by borrowing more against our deficit to send"stimulas checks" to the american people so they will go out and buy more chineese imports! How dumb is that? I can see the chineese banks right now laughing. We loan the americans money with interest so they can continue to buy our inferior products. LOL, who wouldn't bankroll that deal. I know its off the path a little, but I mention it to point out the stupidity that the financial leaders of our country are working with.OUR KIDS will be wondering in 20-30 yrs what the hell WE were thinking when we allowed this to happen. It is shamefull of the people, and criminal of our politicians to pass this kind of legacy on to our kids and grandkids.


I wasn't the one who thanked you for your service smoke chef, just to set the record straight. But I surely should have. Thank you, and all our vets,living and dead who made the sacrifices to keep this country free and safe. Now if we could just get our government to quit giving it away!

 

[capt dan]

It seems as I have torgued someones bolts, as my thread count has lost a few numbers. I surely didn't mean to break any site rules, or do anything to merit any type of censorship.

 

[1894]

UMM , just numbers not going up whilst you are logged on ? I don't pay much mind to mine so I don't know how it works