Noob-need some opinion/where did I go wrong?

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awesomeame

Newbie
Original poster
Aug 3, 2020
5
2
Hi Everyone

It was my first time smoking yesterday, on my Napoleon Apollo 19". So this is how it went. I filled my charcoal basket up to the top and made it level, then removed 20 birquettes from the center and lit them to ash on my chimney. I added them back to the middle of the basket, minion method. Scattered a bunch of chunk wood on top. Assembled the smoker with the water pan 3/4 full of too-hot-to-touch tap water. I kept all the vents wide open until grate temp reached 215 and then closed the lower vents to the width of a pencil. I let it stabilize 25min and it held 213* +/- 1 degree at the grate no problem. (showing 280 on the dome gage, lol)

Then I added my spatchcocked chicken. Temp dipped to 175 with opening the lid, but then back to 213 within 5min. I let it go for an hour. The bird was about 140 at that point. Then basted it, let it go 15min, and basted it again. At this point the bird was at 155. I basted it a 3rd time and let it go another 15min and the bird got to 157. Every time I opened the lid the temp would dip but then recover to the 213 within 5min. Anyways, at this point I'm getting hungry. So I let the bird go another 30min, but the dam thing still stayed at 157.

Now my temp started to drop. I opened the lower door and 90% of my briquettes are gone. So I throw in another 20 briquettes and give it a stir and opened the lower vents fully. This brings my temp to 222 but it will not go any higher. I let it go ANOTHER 30min but the bird is still 157. At this point I gave up since all the added briquettes are used up, and put it in my oven inside at 375, where it still took another 10min before the bird temp climbed to 158, and another 15min to get to 170.

So what the heck. I used 11.5-12lbs of Kingsford Blue briquettes and they all burned up within 2.5hrs with the vents only open the width of a pencil. Is this normal? Even with the vents fully open later in the cook I couldn't get it above 222. I was thinking next time to use lump as it burns hotter...?? Where did I go wrong? I see people on youtube going for a whole day on one load of charcoal???

The stall with the bird also to me seemed ridiculous long to me. I used two sets of probes so the temps are correct. Any thoughts on that?

Any input appreciated, thanks

Matt
 
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But I gotta say. Best chicken I ever had. Never had one so moist in my life :) :) !

Matt
 
Welcome from Wisconsin...

That design looks very similar to the Weber Smokey Mountain. Which is a solid performer.

Based upon what you have said, it seems that your water pan took up all the energy from your fire to keep the chamber at 215 F.

Next time, remove the water pan or put an inch or two of sand in the pan and only small amounts of water for moisture.

Good luck on your next cook.

JC :emoji_cat:
 
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Thanks for the reply JC.

I understand. With the vents in the same position as yesterday, with less water, my temps will go up. But at the same time, with vent position the same, burn time will be the same as yesterday. So my goal should be to get the bottom vents closed more, which will make the charcoal last longer, right? The balance will be to have enough water in the pan to keep the temp where it needs to be. (and maybe this is no water at all, and sand as you mentioned)

What would you define as "minimal amounts of water" ? I had 3 .17 US gallons of water in the pan yesterday.

Thanks,

Matt
 
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Three gallons of water takes far more energy to heat and keep hot than it takes to heat air.

If you are using less energy to keep your pit hot, you will use less charcoal.

When I say minimal amount of water, I am talking about 8 oz or less.

I find that steam in my pit is not really what I need as much as steady heat and airflow.

If you use less water, you will likely see temperature drops and spikes more than with the pan of water. The water is a thermal mass and helps stabilize the temp inside the cooker. Sand will do the same thing and not take all of the energy in your charcoal.

I use about 1 pound of charcoal an hour in my smoker and I can cook about 9 chickens at a time.

Chicken takes about 45 minutes at 250 F then another 30 minutes at 300 F to crisp the skin. Times may vary slightly....

Next time, leave your top vent open 100% and control pit temp from bottom vents only.

I don't have a pit like yours but there are plenty of users here that use the WSM which is close to your set up. I think most of them do not run with a water pan. Hopefully one of them will be along to confirm or deny my hypothesis on your smoker issue.

JC :emoji_cat:
 
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I don't have the same smoker as you either but I believe JC has you covered! That was alot of water. I don't use a water pan in any of my three smokers. I would recommend trying with no water and see how you turn out. Another thought is to brine your chicken ahead of time and leave lid closed while smoking and not basting...keep the heat inside where it's needed.

Ryan
 
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I’m sure your chicken was awesome, cause I pull mine at 157 in the thickest part of the breast. Tender & juicy!
Nicely done!
Al
 
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Low and slow is outdated and pretty much wrong in most cases. The stall is caused by evaporation. You need to cook at a higher temp to beat the stall. Waiting out the stall is simply dehydrating the meat. A good measure is that the cook chamber/grate level temp should be at least 70 degrees above the desired meat internal temperature. Chicken is usually cooked even higher. 300-350F. I would never cook chicken in the low 200s.
 
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Thanks for all the replies!

I did another smoke yesterday (same recipe as last week) with some mixed results. I switched out the 3 gallons of water for 1 gallon of sand. This let my temps come up and settled more or less around 260 with the same bottom vent settings as with the previous water so I ended up using only about half the charcoal.

However, the chicken once again stalled, this time at 148/150, even with grate temp at 260. I was able to get grate temp to 310 with full open vents but after 30min I only got to 152. I lost patience and finished it in the oven at 375 where it needed 20min. Temps were verified with dual probes/different brand systems.

The bird was really dry this week. Like really dry. I feel like it needs the water in the pan. Are all you guys running empty/sand spraying with water/juice during the cook? If so how often?

Another big fail this week was my smoke. I did the same minion method as last week-full basket with 4 chunks of wood-->hollowed the center and got 20 briquettes going in the chimney. Dumped them in the center, let come up to 225 and then began to shut the vents. Mega white smoke this whole time, and I had dumbly put the bird in during this time. Bird tasted horrible & I ended up chucking it.

Can people describe their minion methods in detail? Include vent position if you can. I think with all the white smoke I had that I didn't have enough heat. Like are people starting only 20 briquettes like me, or how do you do it? I read on the Weber site that they recommend filling 2 chimney's 2/3 full and dumping that in the basket, but that doesn't seem to be a popular thing to do in youtube world so I haven't tried it.

Matt
 
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It seems odd that you are getting such a long stall with chicken. I get noticeable stalls with brisket and pork shoulder but not so much with chicken.

The fact that you used far less charcoal with sand than water suggests that you did indeed have too much water. Maybe add 4 oz of water every hour to the sand would help with dryness.

Not sure what happened with your bad smoke. Damp or green wood?

While you are in the process of zeroing in your smoker, keep notes as to what worked and what didn't. It will make your tweaks more effective. Every pit has it's pros, cons, and idiosyncrasies. Once you figure out the best way to run your it, you will get consistent results.

My apologies for not being able to offer anything more.

JC :emoji_cat:
 
Hey yeah, I'm keeping notes :)

The white billowing smoke was pretty nuts. It pretty much went on for two hours, even at 260. At the time since it went on so long it just seemed normal....the taste afterwards told me otherwise lol.

I think my next round I'll maybe take the wood out of the equation and just run the charcoal.

I keep my charcoal and wood in my shed. It's off the ground and dry, but it can be pretty humid. Do you think the humidity would be enough to cause above issues? The wood is dried and from the BBQ store so I imagine it was dry when I bought it, and it seemed not to be so bad last week. I could keep it in the [airconditioned] house if I had to.

Do you think bark on the wood is acceptable? I did notice yesterday's wood had bark and last week did not.

Matt
 
I have used wood with bark and without. As with most things BBQ, it is a matter of taste.

wood bark gives a more robust and bitter flavor. Wood (no bark) gives a cleaner flavor. I just feel like something is missing if I don't smoke a little bark during the cook.

I am stumped by your smoke issue. Could it be grease hitting the fire? I would take a closer look into that if it happens again. Find out what exactly is generating the heavy smoke.

My general rule of thumb with wood is dry wood, you can do no wrong, wet wood, you can do no right. :emoji_sunglasses: :emoji_laughing:

Keep dialing it in, you will get it working like you want and have no where to go but up....

JC :emoji_cat:
 
Try covering the top of the bird in foil once you hit the stall. Chicken hasn’t caused much of a stall issue for me, but if it is in stall, the foil will stop that and your IT will come right on up. If not, check your thermometer.
 
The wood is wet if you're getting a lot of white smoke and struggling to get up to 300F. Heat from your charcoal fire is being used to evaporate moisture in the wood, which isn't burning cleanly. Get another batch of wood. Whatever you have needs a couple months at least to dry.

Brine overnight and you'll never have dry chicken.
 
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