nfdm verses soy protein or sure gel

[dannylang]

non fat dairy milk powder add moister to sausage, so does soy protein or sure gel, whats the difference between them?
dannylang

 

[indaswamp]

All three are high in proteins and when added to the meat paste, those proteins denature when mixed...that is why the meat paste becomes tacky. Those denatured proteins help bind the meat together like a natural glue. It also helps to keep the meat moist. NFDM is powdered milk, soy protein is a little higher in proteins than NFDM, and sure gel is an extract from bacteria.

 

[dannylang]

so is one better than the other? is different situations which one would you use, theres got to be a different uses for them all, sounds like they all do the same to me.
dannylang

 

[dward51]

The Walton's website states Sure Gel is a milk based product that includes phosphates. Sounds like a combination of NFDM and phosphate binders.

I've never used that product, but I do use phosphate binders such as AmesPhos and Butcher & Packer special binder #414 all the time. I've been very pleased with the phosphate results and it only takes a very small amount. A 1 pound bag usually costs around $10 or less and will last years for most people. I use it in all my snack sticks and summer sausage. I have made the same spice recipe in sticks both with and without the phosphates and never noticed any difference in taste, but there is a huge difference in texture and body to the with phosphates products (much improved).

"Phosphates" are also a naturally occurring compound and not some franken-food even though it has a chemical sounding name. Also phosphates are used in nearly all commercial ground meat products with a binder. So don't exclude those products from your binder search.

I know NEPAS has used the carrot binders before and spoke well of them. Perhaps he will comment in this thread soon as he has a ton of experience with binders in ground meat sausages & sticks. I'm going to try the carrot binders once I whittle down my stock of phosphates (it may take a while as like I said a little goes a very long way).

Another Walton's video with info on phosphates

 

[chopsaw]

non fat dairy milk powder add moister to sausage, so does soy protein or sure gel, whats the difference between them?
dannylang

I'm not being a smart @$$ , they don't add moisture they help retain it . I use nfdm most of the time .

 

[dannylang]

thanks for the info and the video, it explains alot about carrot fiber.
dannylang

 

[daveomak]

If you are thinking of using Sure Gel.... Consider Clear Jel... I have used it... it has no flavor... perfect in pies and gravies... It's really an awesome ingredient... It's used in commercial food prep.. not something you get over the counter.... Amazon has it....

Using Clear Jel®
GENERAL: Clear Jel®, a corn starch derivative, is a commercial thickening product used by bakeries
and for frozen food. This product is used the same as flour or corn starch.
There are two types of Clear Jel® available, “instant” and “regular”. “Instant” does
not require heat to thicken. The product will thicken once the liquid is added.
“Regular”, on the other hand, must be heated. This is generally the preferred type to
use in products to be canned.
To use Clear Jel® in a hot dish such as gravy, first mix a small amount in cold water,
then add gradually to the hot liquid, mixing constantly. Or, mix everything together
while cold, and then heat and stir to thicken.
Pies and fillings which have been prepared with Clear Jel® and frozen need to be
cooked or baked before serving. If the fillings become “thin” during baking, increase
the oven temperature, and shorten the baking time to prevent what is called “oven boil
out”. This usually is caused by excessive baking at a temperature too low.
Advantages:
• It is clear in color when cooked.
• It has excellent stability.
• It remains smooth.
• It prevents liquid separation and curdling after foods have been frozen.
• Cream sauces, custard, and puddings may be frozen with excellent results.
Advantages:
• It is less expensive than pectin.
• The amount of sugar may be adjusted without losing the jelling capacity.
• Recipes may be doubled, tripled or halved.
• The jam may be frozen or processed in a boiling water bath for 10 minutes.
Hints:
• Using Clear Jel® in making jams and jellies is not an exact science. Many factors
influence the quality of the product. It is best to try a small batch and make
adjustments before making larger batches.
• Use pint or 1/2 pint jars.
• Any fruit jam or jelly recipe may be used as long as the product is processed for
10 minutes or frozen. Substitute 7 tbsp of Clear Jel® for the pectin in cooked jams
and jellies and 3-4 tbsp of Clear Jel® for the pectin in freezer jam recipes.
• For freezer jam follow the jam recipes on this sheet.
• Clear Jel® does not dissolve easily in liquid. To help dissolve the product mix the
Clear Jel® with a little sugar before adding to the fruit or juice.
Problem solving:
Jam is too stiff: To make softer, heat the product and add a little more juice or water,
then reprocess.
Jam is too thin: To make stiffer, heat the product and add more Clear Jel® mixed
with a few tbsp of sugar and dissolved in 1/2 cup of the product.
JAMS:
Using Clear Jel®, page two
Cherry Jam
4 cups pitted chopped cherries
1/4 cup lemon juice
4 tablespoons Clear Jel®
Sugar to taste (approximately 1 cup)
Add lemon juice to cherries. Combine
Clear Jel® with 1/4 cup of the sugar. Add
to cherries. Bring to a boil, stirring
constantly. Pour into jars, leaving 1/4 inch
headspace. Process 10 minutes in boiling
water bath or freeze.
Apricot and Pineapple Jam
5 cups ground apricots
1 20-oz. can crushed pineapple, drained
1/4 cup lemon juice
7 tablespoons Clear Jel®
Sugar to taste (approximately 3 cups)
Add lemon juice to apricots. Combine
Clear Jel® with 1/4 cup of the sugar. Add
to apricots. Bring to a boil, stirring
constantly. Add rest of sugar. Boil for 1
minute, stirring constantly. Pour into jars,
leaving 1/4 inch headspace. Process 10
minutes in boiling water bath or freeze.
Apricot Jam
3 1/2 cups apricots
2 tablespoons lemon juice
3 1/2 tablespoons Clear Jel®
Sugar to taste (approximately 2 cups)
Add lemon juice to apricots. Combine
Clear Jel® with 1/4 cup of the sugar. Add
to apricots. Bring to a boil, stirring
constantly. Add rest of sugar. Boil for 1
minute, stirring constantly. Pour into jars,
leaving 1/4 inch headspace. Process 10
minutes in boiling water bath or freeze.
Peach Jam
3 3/4 cups peaches
1/4 cup lemon juice
7 tablespoons Clear Jel®
Sugar to taste (approx. 1 1/2 cups)
Add lemon juice to peaches. Combine
Clear Jel® with 1/4 cup of the sugar. Add
to peaches. Bring to a boil, stirring
constantly. Add rest of sugar. Boil for 1
minute, stirring constantly. Pour into jars,
leaving 1/4 inch headspace. Process 10
minutes in boiling water bath or freeze.
Berry Jam
4 cups crushed berries or juiced
1/4 cup lemon juice
7 tablespoons Clear Jel®
Sugar to taste (approximately 1 1/2 cup)
Add lemon juice to berries. Combine Clear Jel® with 1/4 cup of the sugar. Add to
berries. Bring to a boil, stirring constantly. Add rest of sugar. Boil for 1 minute,
stirring constantly. Pour into jars, leaving 1/4” headspace. Process 10 minutes in
boiling water bath or freeze.
Clear Jel® is available* at United Grocer Cash and Carry or check out
www.thebarryfarm.com or www.kitchenkrafts.com.
HANDOUT DEVELOPED BY:
Joanne Austin, Skagit County Extension Faculty
WSU Skagit County Extension
10/07
More home canning info: http://skagit.wsu.edu/FAM/MFP.htm
*Listing of products and goods does not imply endorsement.

 

[dannylang]

thanks dave looks like my mind is made up
dannylang

 

[DanMcG]

I've used Sure Gel and didn't care for the texture of the end product. It was a while ago, and I don't remember what it was I didn't like but I won't use it again. Just my opinion.

 

[dannylang]

you are right chopsaw, it help to retain the moisture, I don't what I was thinking when I wrote that.
dannylang

 

[daveomak]

Clear Jel is a different product than sure gel.... No texture change... I've used it... No flavor change either...