My first Italian sausage, and please help me improve!

[Armyguy2004]

So, I have followed foodwishes recipe for Italian sausage.
I used three lbs meat as it calls, and mixed in 40g of soy protein isolate, which is 3% of the meat weight. I boiled some, smoking some and steaming some at the moment.

I weighted three links for 335g, and after boiling at 78c for 16 minute, it reached to 155F.
After the cooking, the weight was 323g, lost about 5% of the weight.
I bought 6-4 pork ground, and I grinned again with 3mm plate, I guess the meat was not cold enough, since the mouthfeel isn’t what I expected, I’m thinking using food processor to deal with the meat next time.
So, could experts help me to improve the sausage?
How can I eliminate the oil pockets, to keep the juice in the meat, and how can I reduce the weight lose? And the color, please how can I make it more Instagram like?
And how can I make the sausage more like store bought texture?
Thank you!

 

[smokininthegarden]

If you could post the recipe you are using we could give you some suggestions.

Cal

 

[smokerjim]

if you bought the pork ground already I personally wouldn't have ground it again, I grind mine once with a 5/8 plate and once with a 3/8 plate, most stores i've worked in always grind once with a 3/8 plate.as for weight loss you are going to have some,

 

[chopsaw]

I grind once thru 3/8 plate .
There are several good Italian sausage recipes on this forum .

 

[johnmeyer]

To improve appearance, you need to brown them after boiling. I like boiled hot dogs, but am not much of a fan of boiled sausage, so my suggestion is to try another cooking method. A method I would recommend is one I learned from a local sausage guy (a real character) who sells at all the farmers markets:

Cowboy Sausage

I've talked to him many times, and his advice for cooking sausage is to use a CI skillet (preferably with ridges) and cook really slowly (half an hour or more) over relatively low heat, basting with a little olive oil, and turning frequently. If you have the patience for that method, it does indeed produce really good results.

If you don't want pockets of fat, you need to poke holes in the casing. This, of course, will increase the weight loss, but I assume you understand that tradeoff.

Why do you even care about weight loss? Pretty much anything you cook will shrink, lose weight, and have other changes. This is normal and, usually, quite desirable.

As others have said, if you post your recipe, you'll get more advice.

 

[DanMcG]

For Italian I'd want a medium grind, 1/4" is a good choice. Also soy protein is rarely used in a fresh sausage so I'd also be interested in the recipe.
I use two methods to cook fresh sausage (besides grilling) place them in a pan with about a 1/4" of simmering water and cover, then when the water evaporates add a little oil and brown them up. Or, just pan fry in a oil under low heat until brown. you basically get the same result, but the pan fry just takes longer to get to a safe IT.

 

[crazymoon]

AG2004,IMHO your sausage looked pretty plump.I only grind ONCE for pork sausage using a 3/16 or 1/4 plate. You can eliminate some fat by cutting your own pork butt up and leaving alot of fat out,stores make money by adding as much fat as legally possible(fat is cheaper than meat).You could add cure #1 to your recipe to give it a red color and maybe look more store bought?

Here is my favorite hot Italian recipe,courtesy of Eldon Cutlip:
10 pounds of pork butt with back fat taken off ( frozen for later use in venny sausage)
4 Tbspn salt
2 Tbspn paprika
2 Tbspn crushed red pepper
1 Tbspn cayenne pepper
3 Tbspn whole fennel seed
2 Tbspn whole anise seed
1 tsp white pepper
1 tsp black pepper
2 Tbspn sugar
1 cup ice water
Ground once through a 3/16 or 1/4 inch plate
I just made a batch of this and had patties on the grill the past few nights, DELICIOUS!.

 

[Armyguy2004]

For Italian I'd want a medium grind, 1/4" is a good choice. Also soy protein is rarely used in a fresh sausage so I'd also be interested in the recipe.
I use two methods to cook fresh sausage (besides grilling) place them in a pan with about a 1/4" of simmering water and cover, then when the water evaporates add a little oil and brown them up. Or, just pan fry in a oil under low heat until brown. you basically get the same result, but the pan fry just takes longer to get to a safe IT.

the original recipe doesnt call for any soy protein. the reason i used soy protein is, when i took sausage classes, all of the sausages i made and cooked, all turned out to be dry and tasteless. the meat were all very coarse, like eating the taco stuffing ground beef, and no juice, no taste. because when i cook them, all of the juice and spices along with it, all went into the pot. so i asked my chef back then, and he said, it's because the meat cant hold all of the water, oil, and partly because i over cooked them.
anyway, so i started to look for answers, and i learnt that soy protein would hold moisture and fat. so i believe the sausage i made today is juicy and full of flavour, because the soy protein i put in the sausage.
i could be wrong, and thats why i hope you guys could enlighten me further on this. thank you. :D

the recipe i used is

3 pounds pork shoulder
28 grams kosher salt (1 ounce)
4 cloves garlic
2 tablespoons whole fennel seed, toasted
2 teaspoons freshly ground black pepper
1 teaspoon anise seed
2 teaspoon crushed red pepper flakes
1 teaspoon ground cayenne pepper
1 teaspoon oregano
1 teaspoon marjoram
1/2 teaspoon ground mustard
1/4 teaspoon ground allspice berries
1/2 teaspoon ground coriander
1 tablespoon white sugar
2 tablespoons cold water


i followed the recipe closely, and omitted the cayenne.

 

[Armyguy2004]

AG2004,IMHO your sausage looked pretty plump.I only grind ONCE for pork sausage using a 3/16 or 1/4 plate. You can eliminate some fat by cutting your own pork butt up and leaving alot of fat out,stores make money by adding as much fat as legally possible(fat is cheaper than meat).You could add cure #1 to your recipe to give it a red color and maybe look more store bought?

Here is my favorite hot Italian recipe,courtesy of Eldon Cutlip:
10 pounds of pork butt with back fat taken off ( frozen for later use in venny sausage)
4 Tbspn salt
2 Tbspn paprika
2 Tbspn crushed red pepper
1 Tbspn cayenne pepper
3 Tbspn whole fennel seed
2 Tbspn whole anise seed
1 tsp white pepper
1 tsp black pepper
2 Tbspn sugar
1 cup ice water
Ground once through a 3/16 or 1/4 inch plate
I just made a batch of this and had patties on the grill the past few nights, DELICIOUS!.

thank you, i will try your recipe next time. my friends tried my sausage, and claim :" what are these seeds i am eating?" where i am staying, people arent used to these kind of sausage, lol.....so i guess, i have to use the powder forms of these spices......

 

[DanMcG]

The reason they come out dry might be because you aren't developing a good bind. Mix the meat until it sticky and it will retain most of the liquids in the sausage when cooking

 

[sawhorseray]

I've been making my own sausage for about 20 years now, my signature sausage is Wild Hog Italian. I put a post on this site years back, here it is.

https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/more-wild-hog-sausage.179643/#post-1321227

I stopped using my own seasoning mixes after the first time I use the stuff I got from PS Seasonings, 260-B Italian, gets the same great flavor every time. I make the same thing with straight pork butt when the wild pig meat ain't around to be had, no difference in flavor. Here's a link to PS Seasonings if you'd like to try it out. RAY

https://www.psseasoning.com/collections/seasoning-rubs

 

[johnmeyer]

Here's a link to PS Seasonings if you'd like to try it out. RAY

https://www.psseasoning.com/collections/seasoning-rubs

I've been trying to "perfect" a mild Italian sausage recipe for "Chicago-style" pizzas. I'll have a look at their seasonings. Thanks!

[edit]I just looked, and they do have several different Italian seasonings:

No. 260 Blue Ribbon Fresh Italian Sausage Seasoning

No. 673 Sweet Italian Sausage Seasoning

No. 368 Hot Italian Seasoning

I'm not interested in hot, but did you ever try the "673?"

 

[Armyguy2004]

The reason they come out dry might be because you aren't developing a good bind. Mix the meat until it sticky and it will retain most of the liquids in the sausage when cooking

So, more like an emulsified sausage, extract more protein from the meat? Is there any additives I could add to increase the binding ability? Other than egg whites.

 

[JckDanls 07]

NFPD (non fat powdered milk) is a good binder and a moisture retention additive... They say 1 cup for every 5 lbs of meat... I have cut it back to 1/2 cup when I use it... this is in snack sticks so others may tell you something else for sausage ...

 

[Armyguy2004]

NFPD (non fat powdered milk) is a good binder and a moisture retention additive... They say 1 cup for every 5 lbs of meat... I have cut it back to 1/2 cup when I use it... this is in snack sticks so others may tell you something else for sausage ...

snack sticks is what i am going to make next, so very useful!!!!thank you!

 

[sawhorseray]

I've been trying to "perfect" a mild Italian sausage recipe for "Chicago-style" pizzas. I'll have a look at their seasonings. Thanks!

[edit]I just looked, and they do have several different Italian seasonings:

No. 260 Blue Ribbon Fresh Italian Sausage Seasoning

No. 673 Sweet Italian Sausage Seasoning

No. 368 Hot Italian Seasoning

I'm not interested in hot, but did you ever try the "673?"

Nope, just the 260B with garlic and wine Rave reviews for a long long time now. I don't like to fool with what works for me. Try it, ain't gonna break the bank, and you get the same great outcome each and every time. RAY

 

[chopsaw]

Late in the thread to ask these questions maybe , but I was wondering where you were living . I saw in another post you said China .
So,,, my questions . You say above ,

I bought 6-4 pork ground,

Is that a lean to fat ratio ? If so what is that number . Might be to lean .

Is what you're buying in China the same as we use in the States ? Could make a big difference in the final product .

I use NFDM in fresh bratwurst and Polish .
I don't use it in fresh Italian or breakfast .

Soy protein Isolate is a high percentage of protein . I see it used as a binder , but in fresh sausage I see it used to add protein to the sausage . Low rates ,, maybe a TBLS to 5 lbs .

The reason they come out dry might be because you aren't developing a good bind. Mix the meat until it sticky and it will retain most of the liquids in the sausage when cooking

I think what Dan is saying ,,, If you have the right amount of fat in the meat it will come together and bind without adding any binder .
Took me awhile to trust this ,,, but it works .
Also to much water can kill it . People think it's dry add more water . Bad idea .

Listen I'm no expert on this , but I learned from these guys . my sausage making skills are 10 times what they were before I joined here .
My son called today and asked if we had any Italian sausage . My answer was yes .
He said " not the store bought , the stuff you make "
No better proof than that .

I think you should re group on this . Look at the lean to fat ratio of what you're using . Make sure the fat percentage is good , and get a good mix like Dan suggest .

 

[Armyguy2004]

Late in the thread to ask these questions maybe , but I was wondering where you were living . I saw in another post you said China .
So,,, my questions . You say above ,


Is that a lean to fat ratio ? If so what is that number . Might be to lean .

Is what you're buying in China the same as we use in the States ? Could make a big difference in the final product .

I use NFDM in fresh bratwurst and Polish .
I don't use it in fresh Italian or breakfast .

Soy protein Isolate is a high percentage of protein . I see it used as a binder , but in fresh sausage I see it used to add protein to the sausage . Low rates ,, maybe a TBLS to 5 lbs .



I think what Dan is saying ,,, If you have the right amount of fat in the meat it will come together and bind without adding any binder .
Took me awhile to trust this ,,, but it works .
Also to much water can kill it . People think it's dry add more water . Bad idea .

Listen I'm no expert on this , but I learned from these guys . my sausage making skills are 10 times what they were before I joined here .
My son called today and asked if we had any Italian sausage . My answer was yes .
He said " not the store bought , the stuff you make "
No better proof than that .

I think you should re group on this . Look at the lean to fat ratio of what you're using . Make sure the fat percentage is good , and get a good mix like Dan suggest .

in china, it is the same, the more fat it has, the cheaper it is, except for the belly. the 6-4 is the ratio, 6 is lean, 4 is fat. i was told, i should use butt, which is 8-2 ratio, but that part is very expensive, so i have 6-4 mostly. from what i read, 5-5 is the limit, so i guess 6-4 is okay.
the problem i have at the moment is. i am trying to use something to retain the fat and water in the sausage, instead of having them all coming out in the pan. which is what happened to me, when i was first learning how to make sausage, and i still dont have any clue why.
so i am thinking, if i throw in some NFDM or SPI, they would bind the water and fat to them, in order to keep them in the sausage. please educate me on this part.
i am working from the easiest to the hardest, from fresh to emulsified and to smoked. but i kind got stock at the retaining of the juice of the sausage problem. so if you guys could shine me on that matter, i would be very graceful. thank you!

 

[sawhorseray]

I'd think it has to be either not enough fat in the sausage or you aren't mixing till it becomes sticky, as danmcg stated. Most fresh Italian is made from straight porkbutt, which I believe has a fat content of around 30%. I don't know of anyone who has ever had to use soy protein concentrate or dry milk powder in fresh Italian, that stuff comes into play when sausage is going to be smoked. Most recipes call for one cup of liquid for every five pounds of meat, and the batch needs to be mixed for a good ten minutes, until it become sticky. There is a book titled "Great Sausage Recipes & Meat Smoking" authored by Rytec Kutas that has always been my bible, great guidelines. RAY

 

[chopsaw]

6-4 is the ratio, 6 is lean, 4 is fat. i was told, i should use butt, which is 8-2 ratio, but that part is very expensive, so i have 6-4 mostly. from what i read, 5-5 is the limit, so i guess 6-4 is okay.

So is that 40 % fat ? I think the guide line for Italian in the US is 33% . You're buying the meat pre ground ? I use 80 / 20 and grind myself .

I think you need to start from the beginning .
Get the meat paste closer to 80 / 20 .

I just looked at your recipe , 2 Tablespoons of water for 3 lbs I would say is low .

The amount of water I use varies on the meat paste . I measure out 1 cup per 5 lbs . Then add it a little at a time until it comes together ( gets sticky ) most times it's about 1/2 cup per 5lbs of meat paste .

In the picture , your casings look like they weren't soaked enough . I store mine wet like the link posted above .

Pick a recipe from here , Kutas or marianski and follow it . See where you end up .