Low and slow...the myth.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by fatty patty, Jul 28, 2014.

  1. fatty patty

    fatty patty Fire Starter

    Lotta talk of keeping temp between 200-225 when smoking ribs, pork butts. Next time out try them at 250-275. Pork is much more forgiving than beef. As for chicken? Always hot and fast. In my experience brisket and other beef cuts requires the lower 225 and under temps.
     
  2. hickorybutt

    hickorybutt Smoking Fanatic

    I never smoke anything under 250...

    Ribs (both beef and pork) = 250

    Brisket = 270

    Pork Shoulder = 300

    Chicken = 300
     
  3. diesel

    diesel Smoking Fanatic

    Your are correct.  You are never smoking anything.   You are cooking.
     
  4. hickorybutt

    hickorybutt Smoking Fanatic

    You are correct as well. But I still get a great smoke ring and always have plenty of smoke flavor, which is all I ask for.
     
  5. I agree. I even go a little hotter on my brisket and ribs. Myron Mixon always preaches hot and fast is just as good as low and slow, and I'm a believer. Myron's certainly got the credentials to back up what he says.
     
  6. diesel

    diesel Smoking Fanatic

    I am sure the end product is good and if it makes you happy then fine.  But,  you are cooking the meat and not smoking it.  Low and slow allows the fat to render into the meat and not melt out.  The higher the temps the more risk you take of drying it out.

    As for Myron,  He is not doing real BBQ anymore.  He is doing gourmet food.  If you inject as much "stuff" into your product as he does, then cooking it hot and fast will work just fine.

    I guess I am just old school and like to take the time and effort to do slow and low.  I am not disagreeing with the hot and fast technique.  Heck, I do it sometimes myself and have also had good results.  I definitely cook chicken and turkey at higher temps (300-350). 

    so I just want to be clear.... no disagreement here.

    Aaron.
     
  7. hickorybutt

    hickorybutt Smoking Fanatic

    I've always been under the belief that anything under 275 degrees is low and slow.  A lot of traditional BBQ joints will cook meat between 250-275.  Franklin BBQ in Austin, TX runs their briskets at fairly high temps (275+).  I've smoked meat before at lower temps, and I really haven't noticed a difference in end product (including fat rendering) between 225-235 vs. 250-275 which is where I will do ribs and brisket.  And I've had the same results with pork shoulder running at 300.  

    To each his own.  There are several ways to slice pie.
     
  8. diesel

    diesel Smoking Fanatic

    Yes.. several ways to slice a pie.  But what you are now stating is difference between slicing a pie and digging in with a shovel.    BBQ joints cook at a higher temp because they need to get the product out on the table.  Franklin runs his smokers as high as 375 but he also recommends to cook the brisket at or below 250. 

    we can keep this up all day. 
     
  9. sqwib

    sqwib Smoking Guru OTBS Member

    Folks always confuse Low and Slow with smoking, they are two entirely different things and therefore should not be used interchangeably.
     
  10. prudentsmoker

    prudentsmoker Fire Starter

    I have been cooking my Thanksgiving turkey in the oven for years at 170. It takes twice as long, but the meat falls off the bones, is very juicy and I cook it uncovered without basting once.
     
  11. geerock

    geerock Master of the Pit SMF Premier Member

    Just wondering when 250 became hot and fast? And if you're telling me that any meat smoked over 250 renders the fat OUT of the meat thats dead solid wrong. And you are cooking the meat when you using a chamber temp of 225.......you are just taking longer to do it.
     
  12. diesel

    diesel Smoking Fanatic

    SQWIB has cleared everything up.
     
  13. fwismoker

    fwismoker Master of the Pit

    All HOGWASH lol. 

    I'd love to know where smoking stops and cooking begins. lol.  think about it y'all. 

    Let's stop with the "smoking" & "cooking" nonsense and concentrate on what it takes to give food good flavor.   
     
    hickorybutt and c farmer like this.
  14. hickorybutt

    hickorybutt Smoking Fanatic

    I'd be curious to see what the 'official' definitions of the words are.  Is there a widely accepted agreement on what these words actually mean?
    So are you saying running a pit at 225 is smoking but 275 is not?  50 degrees makes that much of a difference??  And even when you are at 225 you are still essentially "cooking" the meat.  So let's not say that 275 is cooking and 225 is not.

    I'm not trying to sit here and foster an argument.  I just really don't see how all of these terms are THAT different.  225 is cooking just as 275 is.  Meat is normally cooked in an oven at temps higher than 300 degrees, so I would argue that anything under 300 degrees is low and slow.
    Great post.
     
  15. foamheart

    foamheart Smoking Guru OTBS Member SMF Premier Member

    Sounds to me like the thread itself was baiting an argument.

    There is no right way, there is no wrong way, there is no myth, and the best smoked food is what you are most happy with. What you do and enjoy is great, but maybe what I do and enjoy is different. There is no one perfect way.  Oh and low & slow or Hot and fast are myths?  Its good to know that after 1000's of years that Myron is the answer to smoking.

    Enjoy your smoke.
     
    waywardswede likes this.
  16. diesel

    diesel Smoking Fanatic

    Yes.. I was wrong with when using the word "cooking".  I admit that.  I should have used the word grilling or maybe even roasting.  And yes there is a definition for smoking meat.  and it says that anything above 225 is no longer smoking meat.

    I tried to find some links to where I am coming from on this.  Just I have always been told/taught smoking is no higher than 225.

    http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/52407/definition-of-smoking

    Here is another great link.. from foamheart.

    http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/160698/time-and-temp-for-smoking

    And the chart for temps and what happens to meat and fat at those temps.  
    https://statich.smokingmeatforums.com/b/be/beed66f8_TEMPERATURES.jpeg

    OK.. I am done.  great smoking to everyone.
     
  17. fwismoker

    fwismoker Master of the Pit

    These so called definitions are all subjective and will always be subjective.  Cooking something at  225* for 12 hours or at 300* for 7-8 hours will often bring about identical finished product.   The whole idea to BBQ is through time and experimentation find out what works out best for your liking and lifestyle. 

    I'll give you an example.   I've recently developed a different cooking style for BB ribs.  My friend always cooks his BB the same way...low and slow for 4 hours give or take and my BB ribs might take an hour to hour and a half. (yes i didn't stutter).  

    I cooked my BB ribs with his rubs so he could compare the difference from his which he had the day prior. All said and done he said mine were in the top 5 best he's ever had and couldn't put those 5 in any particular order.      IMO this is a pretty good example of there are different ways and temps to come up with quality "smoked" food at different temps and styles of cooking. 
     
  18. timberjet

    timberjet Master of the Pit

    Yes! I was thinking the exact same thing. This post was meant to bait an argument. not solve a problem. no doubt about it. You do it your way and I will do it mine. Until I try it your way. Then I will probably go back to my way. hahaha
     
  19. timberjet

    timberjet Master of the Pit

    Boy, I hate to step into the line of fire here but to me, smoking meat is all about adding smoked flavor to the meat, rendering fat into the meat and break down connective tissue while ending up with a quality finished product. I just can't see how you can get good or thin blue smoke at 300 plus degrees. The other argument I have is that the more time the stuff lays in the smoke the better penetration of flavor will be achieved. Now you hot and fast guys may be under the assumption that meat takes no more smoke after a certain few hours or am I not correct? Are you saying that your hot and fast is BETTER? Or what is the exact argument here? If you are just arguing for the sake of arguing then take it to one of the forums that encourage that crap. I love this forum for being helpful and not drama filled back biting bull. Have a nice day. 
     
  20. fwismoker

    fwismoker Master of the Pit

    I'd start with the fact that it isn't smoke that gives the best quality flavors but rather the combustion gasses from the wood that was burnt.   Do you know what comprises thin blue smoke or better yet what makes it appear thin and blue?
     

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