I would like to hear your thoughts...

[dernektambura]

Not long ago, I spoke to friend overseas in Europe and he gave me recipe for sausages.. now, recipe itself is standard Hungarian cold smoked sausages. . the part that intrigued me is that he would first cure meat in vacuum bags for week and then grind meat, add spices, make sausages and cold smoke them...
His reasoning is that already cured meat is less prone to botulism than fresh meat during processing....
what do you think....

 

[SonnyE]

Sounds reasonable to me.
I made some snack sticks from some Buckboard Bacon I'd made.
But I don't think I've read where any folks here cure before grinding.

 

[crazymoon]

D, Marianski's book on Polish sausages usually shows a recipe that has the cure and salt sitting in the fridge with cubed meat for two days. It is then ground with the spices before stuffing.

 

[indaswamp]

Yes. It is best practice to allow the salt and cure to penetrate the meat. The salt extracts the salt soluble proteins, which create the bind. And the cure is allowed to distribute through out the meat.

 

[indaswamp]

Now, you can add the salt & cure to finely ground meat paste, add a cure accelerator and seasonings, stuff, and smoke immediately. Which is what commercial processors do. The initial heat will accelerate the cure permeating the meat paste, and the cure accelerator will ensure NO gas distribution and enhance the color.

 

[dernektambura]

His reasoning is about posible contamination with botulisam and e-coli. .. Meat is processed in large quantities before its delivered to bucher store, meaning there is plenty of time before kill and sale for meat to get contaminated... its all good cuz most of the meat is cooked above 165 deg F..but we additionally process meat to cold smoke and air dry where sausages never reach 165 F temp.... makes sense to cure first and then process.

 

[indaswamp]

There is no need to cook smoke sausages to a final temp of 165*...when warm smoking.

There is a time component and it is temperature dependent. 152*INT for about 5 minutes is enough to kill to a log5 reduction. I hold for roughly 20 minutes to ensure a Log7 reduction.

 

[dernektambura]

There is no need to cook smoke sausages to a final temp of 165*...when warm smoking.

There is a time component and it is temperature dependent. 152*INT for about 5 minutes is enough to kill to a log5 reduction. I hold for roughly 20 minutes to ensure a Log7 reduction.

I never go over 18 deg C (60F) when cold smoking.. smoking takes about week or so, 3 - 4 hrs a day. . consumed raw as an appetizer...

 

[atomicsmoke]

Does your friend from Hungary use nitrite to cure the sausage meat? I would assume he is not. In which case he doesn't minimize de risk of botulism poisoning by keeping the mest with salt in the fridge for a week. On the contrary, the risk might be increased if the fridge cannot hold below 4C or if opened frequently.

 

[dernektambura]

Does your friend from Hungary use nitrite to cure the sausage meat? I would assume he is not. In which case he doesn't minimize de risk of botulism poisoning by keeping the mest with salt in the fridge for a week. On the contrary, the risk might be increased if the fridge cannot hold below 4C or if opened frequently.

actually he does.. its European Peclosol cure (0.60% nitritr + 99.4% salt...

 

[atomicsmoke]

His reasoning is about posible contamination with botulisam and e-coli. .. Meat is processed in large quantities before its delivered to bucher store, meaning there is plenty of time before kill and sale for meat to get contaminated... its all good cuz most of the meat is cooked above 165 deg F..but we additionally process meat to cold smoke and air dry where sausages never reach 165 F temp.... makes sense to cure first and then process.

E

actually he does.. its European Peclosol cure (0.60% nitritr + 99.4% salt...

Then he's fine...either way (cure then grind or cure grind meat).