Hot Water Heater advice

[pops6927]

My 16 yr old hot water heater's elements went out yesterday (the bottom one). It'd happened before, I'd change them and all would be ok. However, last night I got the top one in just fine, but the bottom one was all corroded and by the time I finally got it out, the threads were worn too much or something. Besides all the sediment coming out of the hole (the bottom of it is full of it) I could not get the element to thread in the hole right, it kept cross-threading no matter what I did. Finally I horsed on it and got it in as far as I could, added a little water and sure enough it was spraying everywhere, not sealed. So, I called my neighbor who has a friend who replaced their's and their neighbor's on the other side of them to see if he could replace mine for me; he said he'd come over tonight to look at it. I'll have to go to Home Depot tonight to buy a new one.

The one I have now is a BO Smith permaglass 50 gal., any suggestions on what I should get and what would be a fair price to pay him to change it out for me? Or, is there any fix to the old one? Cut meat for 30 years, but sure not a plumber!

Pops §§

 

[pops6927]

Just looked at Home Depot's site, they have GE hwh made by Rheem, which is supposed to be the best from what I've read. They have a 6yr and a 12 yr models in 40 and 50, the difference being the 6 yr is not self-cleaning and the 12 yr is, about $50 more for the 12 yr. in each catagory. I would assume that the price difference would be worth it, from $288 to $347 for the 40 gal. I don't think me and momma would need any more than the 40 gal., if we still had kids we'd probably need the 50, but just us, the 40 should suffice. Or is my thinking wrong? Never shopped for a hwh before!

 

[smokindave]

The GE by Rheem at HD is a great water heater. I just replaced mine after 10 years, and it was the 6 year model. No trouble with it at all during that time. For 2 people, the 40 gallon should be fine. I actually went down to the 30 for two people, and I haven't noticed a difference yet. Of course, it's so hot here in AZ we don't use much hot water anyway! :) As for fair compensation, I don't really know. It took me about an hour to do mine, but could probably do it quicker now. If you lived around here, I'd help you out for a smoked meat sandwich and a couple beers!

 

[pops6927]

Heh heh... love your tag line!

I've got a bad back so that's why I've got to hire it done, plus having never changed one out I wouldn't know where to start anyways; rather get it done right the first time than to screw it up and have to hire someone to fix it up later, lol!
Yeah, in Texas we're the same way, it's 105 here during the summer or hotter! Glad to hear you're doing good with the 30, I rechecked and I've got the 50 gal. BO Smith but it's probably 10 gal full of sediment anyways so the 40 should be fine.

Pops §§

 

[eaglewing]

My plumber gets about $125 to change out to a new one.

I'm not saying that's fair, that's just what most get for the work.

 

[bigsteve]

I'm on my 3rd house. Each one has had a 50 gal AO smith heater. I never-ever ran out of hot water with any of them. FWIW.

Good luck, plumbing trouble is such a pain in the keester.

 

[pineywoods]

The 40 should do fine for you. The charge to change it depends on how it is plumbed the last two I changed out were very different. The one at my house was easy to get to had flex copper lines to it and was a 30 minute or so job. I changed one at my father's house a few months back easy to get to but all copper fittings were sweated in and had a hot water recovery system for the A/C plumbed into the same pipes it was a royal pain and about 2 hours and lots of cussing

Another thing to consider is size its easier to install one that is the same size as whats coming out most of the time

 

[smoking gun]

There's not much difference in water heaters from brand to brand. Most are made in the same plant and just have different names applied. As far as your A.O. Smith 16 year old water heater..... It's time for it to be retired.
One question is what size are the elements? If you have 4500 watt elements you're good to go as thats what most heaters will come with. You need a 30 amp breaker and #10 wire.
Now here is where it gets interesting. You say you have a lot of sediment in the old heater. If you live in an area with hard water thats pretty normal. It's also the reason the bottom element went out. A self cleaning heater will help minimize the buildup and make the elements last longer.
The only other difference in a 6 year heater and a 12 year is the annode rod in the heater. The 12 year has a longer rod.
As far as the 40 gallon vs 50 gallon, at the plumbing supply warehouse the 50 gallon electric heaters are actually cheaper than the 40 gallon, because they sell a lot more 50s. The gas heaters are the opposite with 40 gallon being the bigger seller. In my 30+ years of plumbing I sold Bradford White heaters for about 10 years and A.O. Smith for the rest. I had less problems with the A.O. Smith.
Installation from a "friend" would normally run around $100 - $125 unless there's something out of the ordinary. I would definitely add an expansion tank in the line coming in to the heater. Not only does it give heated water room to expand but it also cushions pressure surges in the whole plumbing system.

One other thing. When you get your heater the temperature will be set at 125 degrees or less. This is an EPA safety mandate to lessen the chance of getting burned by hot water. When I started plumbing they all came set at 140 degrees and they actually had numbers on the thermostat. Now they say hot hotter hottest or something similar. If you don't have small children or elderly you will get more capacity with hotter temps.

Hope this helps.

SG

 

[fire it up]

If you get the same size as you have now then most likely the pipes will not have to be altered. Smaller size means you will have to raise the heater up or extend the pipes to make up the difference. 16 years old I am assuming that the pipes are either galvanized or copper. Copper is the best to re-do because now you don't even need to solder couplings and pipes together. They make these nifty couplings that have "teeth" in them that you can simply use to attach the pipes together and no leaks, no solder, no pipe dope.
Not so sure how those "self cleaning" ones work but it is a great idea to drain your water heater every couple of years to keep it clean.
16 years isn't bad but I have seen some go over 20 years before they had problems.
Had you ever had your top element checked to make sure it was working? If the bottom one has had to be replaced a few times it is possible the top doesn't work and so the bottom has to do double duty.
When you screwed the bottom element in did you use teflon or pipe dope? Not having something to seal those threads could cause water to spray out as well, you should run your finger around the female threads and see if one is possibly bent, though after 16 years it just may be time for a new one, unfortunately the new ones never last as long as the old ones.
As for payment, for a friend I would do it for nothing, someone who was a friend of a friend I personally would be happy with $50, especially if it is a smooth job so I figure $100 is definitely a fair price for the guy, or maybe a some cash and a batch of smoked goodness.
One last thing, what are you doing with the old one?
Not sure around your area but I know here you are required to get a permit when replacing a water heater and the inspectors do drive around to see if there are old ones setting out where they can see them and check on the permit.

*One other option is for a tankless water heater. They may run you a bit more but will save sooooo much in energy costs over time, and with only 2 people should provide plenty of hot water.
My parents use one but their is gas though they do make electric ones.

 

[smoking gun]

Even if you get the same size it could be taller or shorter depending on the diameter. They're rarely the same height.

Draining your heater sounds like a good idea but to really clean it out, after draining you need to remove the bottom element and vacuum it out with a wet dry shop vac.

If your top element is out you have no hot water. The way a water heater is wired the top thermostat has to reach temperature before it puts power to the bottom element.

Elements do not require thread sealant to seal because they rely on a gasket. That being said a good teflon paste pipe sealant WILL make the element easier to remove the next time it goes out.

New ones never last as long because they're engineered that way. They make the annode just long enough to last past the warranty date. If you could change the annode every 6 years your tank probably would never rust out.

Just a few pluming facts.

Good info on the sharkbite copper fittings, permits and the tankless heaters.

 

[fire it up]

My mistake, thought it was reverse, bottom then top. Been a while...

 

[smoking gun]

You're right about the bottom doing double duty though. Because a tube takes the cold water to the bottom of the heater, unless you're using a large amount of hot water (filling a bathtub or washing machine), the top element doesn't come on nearly as much. the way a self cleaning works is they take that tube to the bottom and turn it so the water flow swirls the sediment. I'm not sold on how good that is for the rest of your plumbing fixtures. ;)

 

[fishawn]

Ever consider a "tankless" or "on-demand"..... Not an expert on them, but have heard positive remarks from people on pretty considerable energy cost savings. I think they are about $800 -$1,200 for the main unit.

 

[diesel]

I went with a Gas tankless... no regrets. I even did most of the work myself. Many factors involved as to wether it is possible to do on your own.. I already had a vent also a gas line so that wasn't an issue. And now I don't heat water I am not useing.

 

[bmudd14474]

we sell the marathon water heaters at my work. Very efficient units.

 

[pops6927]

Thank you for all your great responses! I got ahold of a friend of the neighbors next door who changed out their water heater for them, and also for their other neighbor. He came over tonight and looked at the existing wh and declared it officially dead; when I removed the bottom element it was corroded in enough it basically crumbled the threads and there wasn't anything left to screw in the new element, plus the sediment was up almost a third the way inside the tank (16 yrs worth), so it was time to wish it adieu.
He said he could change it out for $130, which was in line with y'all's suggestions - thank you SO MUCH for them because it gave me an unbiased reference to make a decision from! I told him ok go for it and went and bought the 40 gal. GE/Rheem at Home Depot, 12 yr warranty, medium height w/4500 elements for $347 + tx. I confirmed with the neighbor his trustworthiness; they've known him for 30+ years and attend the same church with him and his family. He's a retired industrial plant maitenance supervisor so he has the tools and skills to be able to easily accomplish the job. He's coming over Friday afternoon with a helper and will change it out, then stop back after we get done work to make sure it's ok and collect his pay.
My oldest son offered to do it for me, but it will be a hot, knuckle-busting, cramped, dirty and sweaty job. I told him I'd rather he come over and we enjoy the Sunday afternoon making some sausages instead of whupping on a hot water heater! So if possible we'll get some nice sausages made, and Qview to follow!
And, more than that, my wife will once again get to enjoy laundry day! (Yeah, right...!).
Thanks again for all your help!

Pops §§