Hot Dog advice needed

[jaxrmrjmr]

I have never been able to get the mouth-feel right so I just started grinding it twice through a 1/8" plate and then stuffing.

 

[indaswamp]

I have never been able to get the mouth-feel right so I just started grinding it twice through a 1/8" plate and then stuffing.

Here's some meat science for ya on meat emulsions..
https://meatsci.osu.edu/node/130
https://meatsci.osu.edu/node/130
Basically, you are ripping the proteins into long, long strands and they wrap around finely chopped fat particles. The salt and water help to extract the salt soluble proteins to make the emulsion. It's more involved than this of course, but that's the basics....

 

[LanceR]

I use both 14 and 18" Hobart Buffalo bowl cutter (AKA Buffalo chopper) for hot dogs and similar sausage but the theory is the same with a food processor which I usually only use for seasoning test runs. I suspect that the issue of gritty mouth feel was the run time of the processor and as the lhendler said in post #13 he ran the processor for a longer period which would have resulted in more finely cut lean meat particles with better results.

And as Chef JJ related, using cracked or shaved ice instead of water helps as the friction from the processor blades creates a lot of heat in the mixture. I add the ice in three stages as the mixture cuts down so that it is keep cooler throughout processing. Lastly, his advice to add the fat late was spot on. I chill the fat chunks to the "frost crust" stage so that it cuts cleaner and add them at the very end of the mixing time.

I also use the method cranky mentioned to dry and the smoke the sausage and start cooking it but finish cooking by poaching as it gets to cooked temperature much faster and with very fine temperature control. For me, poaching means I don't have to worry about fat melting. I have known folks to use a pan on a on a hot plate or electric griddle with a PID controller to have even better temperature control. I haven't tried that yet but as I have a spare Auber controller I intend to the next time we go on a sausage making binge.

Using a food processor I find that I get the best results with the lean meat cubed to about 1 to 1-1/2" and chilled to the frost crust stage before processing. My experience has been that starting with ground lean meat, even if very cold, is less consistent. And don't be afraid to chill the meat mixture again part way through processing. The colder it is the cleaner it will cut and the smoother it will be......

I prefer to refer to the meat mixture for a finely ground sausage as a batter as it's not really an emulsion For days when we make multiple kinds of sausages the difference in meat ratios between hot dogs, Frankfurters and Coneys is so small we sometimes make a big batch batter, divide it and then season and remix each batch just before stuffing. That cuts down on the number of times we have to do each step and the number of times I have to clean things between different sausages.

 

[Gwanger]

I might be wrong here, but isn't that about twice as much pink salt as you need for 2 1/2 lbs, of meat?

If I'm wrong someone else please say so !

Other than that it sounds like a good hot dog recipe.

If it is prague powder #1, 1 tsp per 5lbs.

 

[archeryrob]

I tried making this last night for deer dogs. I am going with 20# and its half pork and fat. I multiplied the recipe and for 20# its 8 cups of water and 8 cups of ice. I was shocked and only added 4 cups of ice water for the mixing of the cure and rest in the fridge. I am going to assume some of the NFDM soaks this up? I can add 4 more cups of water and 8 cups of ice Sunday when I do the spices and stuff to cook. 8 cups is a half gallon.

Someone please clarify for me that this is not TOO much water and ice, because I was shocked how much it was. I am stuffing tomorrow morning and think only some ice might be needed. 4 cups is a quart. If it followed the orginal recipe its 1 gallon of water and ice for 20# of meat and it sounds soupy to me.

 

[Gwanger]

I tried making this last night for deer dogs. I am going with 20# and its half pork and fat. I multiplied the recipe and for 20# its 8 cups of water and 8 cups of ice. I was shocked and only added 4 cups of ice water for the mixing of the cure and rest in the fridge. I am going to assume some of the NFDM soaks this up? I can add 4 more cups of water and 8 cups of ice Sunday when I do the spices and stuff to cook. 8 cups is a half gallon.

Someone please clarify for me that this is not TOO much water and ice, because I was shocked how much it was. I am stuffing tomorrow morning and think only some ice might be needed. 4 cups is a quart. If it followed the orginal recipe its 1 gallon of water and ice for 20# of meat and it sounds soupy to me.

I hope you are using a sausage recipe I would just follow the recipe and adjust accordingly later. start with 1/2 water to ice and adjust if needed.Very important keep everything Ice cold

 

[DanMcG]

20 pounds of mince should only need 4 cups of water or less. What is your recipe and what are you grinding the meat with?

 

[danbono]

This is some great input. I have to admit, that that is more or less the process I used to smoke Thuringer sausage. ( l will provide the recipe another opportunity).

Thuringer or a bratwurst recipe, that you may have? Glad the dogs worked out for you!
Dan

 

[archeryrob]

20 pounds of mince should only need 4 cups of water or less. What is your recipe and what are you grinding the meat with?

I followed the recipe on this post #4 plus it added 1/2 cup NFDM. I was going to use less water but when mixing the meat was sticky and stressing my drill. Plus I had more milk to add, so I added the extra 4 cups of water and it has 4 cups of ice also. It mixed good and looked emulsified. The pan fry test was awesome and moist, but liquid was slipping out. Now on to the boil, Water leaked out to the casings and the hot dogs shrank. They are ok, but lost flavor, some size and got a bit spongy more than I would like. This was way too much water! The recipe spices are very good though.

This is what I used and I'd like suggestion on how to change the last three lines. The was too much water and when adding the Milk is seemed to want more water.

 

[DanMcG]

The NFDM should be used at a rate of 1%-3% of the meats weight.
For the added liquid I measure out 10% of the meat block weight and use what I need to get the consistency I want, but never (well almost never) more than 10%
Hope this helps.

 

[vel2000]

In Germany we use a ratio of about 85% meat + 15% crushed ice or salted ice water for Wiener/Fankfurter/Bockwurst.
(But this ratio may also depend on the emulsifier agent, we use one based on phosphate)
If no professional chopper is available, I would prefer ice water so that the knives do not become dull.

Important: Observe the temperature while processing, the meat temp should not exceed 12-14° Celsius (53-57° Fahrenheit)!
If the meat mass gets too warm, fat and water will separate and you get a "nice" jelly in your sausage...

 

[archeryrob]

10% weight of water, or less? So if 10#of meat then 1# of water or less. Which I am assuming 2 cup being 16oz is 1 lb
20# limited to 4 cups and I had 8 cups and 4 cups of ice.

I like this recipe for the spices but maybe I should go back and look at that Len Poli recipe for Milk. I see none of his recipes call for water at all. They got to be hard to mix after adding the NFDM without water.

 

[vel2000]

20# limited to 4 cups and I had 8 cups and 4 cups of ice.

20# meat (~9100 gr) and 8 cups of water (~1890 gr) sounds ok, its a ~83%-17% meat/water ratio.
I think your recipe should read water or (not and) ice.
You guys should really use the metric system and a kitchen scale... :D

 

[DanMcG]

I think your recipe should read water or (not and) ice.
You guys should really use the metric system and a kitchen scale... :D

I think you nailed it with the and/or comment Vel, and you're right about using metric weight instead of volume, It just makes it so much simpler.
And welcome to the Forums!!

 

[jimmyinsd]

20# meat (~9100 gr) and 8 cups of water (~1890 gr) sounds ok, its a ~83%-17% meat/water ratio.
I think your recipe should read water or (not and) ice.
You guys should really use the metric system and a kitchen scale... :D

we use the metric system... I have both .75s and 1.75s in my liquor cabinet and refer to them as such.:cool:

 

[vger6]

Hi, I did them yesterday, but mine SEPARATED while smoking. They lost a lot of liquid and fat inside the casing. What do you think I did wrong?
Everything was very cold while processing. Could they have too much fat or water?

 

[LanceR]

Hi, I did them yesterday, but mine SEPARATED while smoking. They lost a lot of liquid and fat inside the casing. What do you think I did wrong?
Everything was very cold while processing. Could they have too much fat or water?

Without knowing what the ratio of meat/fat to water was I can't answer the question regarding water content but some of the quantities of water listed in some of this thread's posts are really high. Personally I add no more water than is needed for good mixing and stuffing texture. And for hot dogs, Coneys and Frankfurters I put them in the smoker at low temperature (no more than 120F) and with wide open vents until they are surface dry, lightly smoke them and poach them to cook them.

If yours had a lot of melted fat in the casings they were likely at too high a temperature.

Best regards to all,

 

[authorized_sausage]

I know this is very old but I was looking for some tips to make hotdogs and found it. I am trying this recipe except half the prague powder and using garlic powder rather than fresh garlic. I've just ground up the meat with the fine plate and mixed in the salt, prague powder, and ice water. It's in the fridge. I won't let it sit for the 1-2 days because I need to smoke them this evening, though not for a few hours.

I will let it sit in there while I go clean off my patio. I just got a brisket out of my smoker and I am letting it cool down before I put it in the oven at 150 overnight. I am hosting a graduation party for my son, who graduated from college last week. Party is tomorrow. I probably won't sleep since I still have a lot of cleaning and prep to do.

Back to the dogs...I am going to dry mine out in the oven rather than my smoker. My smoker is a wood-burning offset and it's VERY hard to keep the temps that low. Then I will smoke them at the recommended temp of 170. I CAN manage to keep it at that temp, especially at night.

Tomorrow I am smoking a beef belly and a couple pork bellies and a couple racks of ribs. Sides I and my boyfriend are making are crab mac and cheese, green beans, and ambrosia salad. I think my son's Dad is going to bring some more vegetable sides. Rather, HIS girlfriend will likely make it because my ex-husband can't cook AT ALL.

I know this is old but will come back to show the results!

 

[DougE]

I won't let it sit for the 1-2 days because I need to smoke them this evening, though not for a few hours.

Unless you used a cure accelerator (Sodium erythorbate is most common), you probably should let the cure do its thing for at least 12 hours before smoking.

 

[DougE]

Even with erythorbate, you will have a better end product if you let the sausages sit over night and smoke the next day.