Hopefully last newbie curing questions

[novasbc]

I have probably been driving myself crazy.  I do know the reasoning behind using the different cures during cooking & drying processes.

Question #1:

I have read several posts warning against freezing the meats, as the cures cause it to go rancid earlier.  I also read this post which is very helpful.   Can I assume that "Hard/Dry Sausage" means a sausage processed with either Cure #1 and brought to an internal temperature of at least 152, or  dried with cure #2?

Question #2:

With Cure #1, are you limited on the amount of time you keep the sausage under heat?  Most recipes talk about pulling it out of the heat at between 152-160 degrees.  Has the cure broken down by this point, or is it just that this is the preference of the person who originally drafted the recipe?  My brother in law makes some really good sausage that after the proper IT, he drops it down to 80-90 degrees for something in the order of two days, before leaving to hang in the house for 5+ days.

What concerned me about this is not only does the cure break down, but I read how important the temperature and humidity is when dry curing meats over weeks and months...  Is this only  when doing it with cure #2?

Overall, I think I have conflated the two cures, and some of the processing rules between them in the massive amount of reading I've tried to do.

I just don't want to poison somebody!

Thanks!

 

[daveomak]

Hard dry sausage is a sausage that has been dry aged for months and NOT cooked...   that is a process that is fairly involved... 

Your brother in-law's recipe is VERY dangerous...  I would not eat it......

Using cure #2 to dry age meats is common... the meat is not cooked...   it's eaten "as is"..   "raw" so to speak...

Cure #1 starts to "decompose" at about 130 ish deg. F... studies have shown, there is about 10-20% of the nitrite remaining in the meat when it is in the refer case at the market, still providing some margin of safety...

 

[novasbc]

 
Hard dry sausage is a sausage that has been dry aged for months and NOT cooked...   that is a process that is fairly involved... 

Your brother in-law's recipe is VERY dangerous...  I would not eat it......

Using cure #2 to dry age meats is common... the meat is not cooked...   it's eaten "as is"..   "raw" so to speak...

Cure #1 starts to "decompose" at about 130 ish deg. F... studies have shown, there is about 10-20% of the nitrite remaining in the meat when it is in the refer case at the market, still providing some margin of safety...

Thank you for confirming the danger of that recipe.  This helps me clarify things.  I was hoping in his case that having cure #1 in it would have been the right way, protecting from danger in the extended time in the smoker and hanging.

Clearly, if the cure #1 has decomposed since the internal temperature was taken to 152 degrees, it has lost it's protection, and sitting in 85-90 degree temperatures for a couple of days, followed by hanging is re-introducing the risk.

I'll stick to recipes that are vetted here and in the Kutas book.

I just called him and talked to him, and confirmed that he uses Fiesta Curing Salt (Cure #1 based on this thread):

His directions:

1. Cure per directions on packaging.
   1. 
      Use 4oz for 100 lbs of sausage or jerky.  Use 2 teaspoons for 10 lbs of meat.
2. 
   Meat, ground and mixed per particular recipe.
3. 
   In smoker, following standard instructions to get to 152+ degrees fahrenheit internal temperature.
4. 
   Reduce heat to 80-90 degrees for two days
5. 
   Hang for 5 days.

I wanted to be sure he wasn't using cure #2 since he said his wasn't called "cure #1" or prague #1.

 

[novasbc]

Said my piece to him about it being dangerous to drop the temperature and then later let them hang sure to the cure decomposing.

He says the meat markets around do it the same way as he does, but I think they must not, or they would get dinged by the FDA.

Regardless, thanks for the explanations here, and for all the other food safety posts I've been able to read.

 

[daveomak]

novasbc, morning....   I finally got aroung to looking at the link you put up....    WHAT THE HECK !!!   They don't have a clue as to what the ingredients are in their product...  How could anyone believe their ingredients ???    nitrite/nitrate...   maybe they don't know the difference...

https://www.fiestaspices.com/hunters-choice/curing-salt-2/

Bolner’s Fiesta Brand Curing Salt is the ideal blend of salt, sodium nitrate, and sodium bicarbonate, useful in curing and preserving all of your favorite meats.
[h2]INGREDIENTS[/h2]
Salt, Sodium Nitrite (6.25%), Propylene Glycol and Sodium Bicarbonate as Processing Aids and FD&C Red #3

 

[indaswamp]

Hey Dave,
Old thread I know, but question for ya-what is sodium bicarbonate used for in sausage? Is it a cure accelerator?

 

[indaswamp]

Hey Dave,
Old thread I know...question for ya, what is sodium bicarbonate used for in making sausage? Cure accelerator?