Got a hot dog situation...

[chopsaw]

I think I'll go with pork next

Pork butt , 1 grind through an 1/8 " plate . Sodium erythorbate and sodium phosphate added and mixed until sticky .
One pass .

Mixed . You can still see the fat .

Sheep casings . Smoked for color , poached to finish .

The sodium erythorbate and sodium phosphate aid in the texture of the sausage .

 

[zachyweezer]

Pork butt , 1 grind through an 1/8 " plate . Sodium erythorbate and sodium phosphate added and mixed until sticky .
One pass .
View attachment 667966
Mixed . You can still see the fat .
View attachment 667967
Sheep casings . Smoked for color , poached to finish .
View attachment 667968
The sodium erythorbate and sodium phosphate aid in the texture of the sausage .
View attachment 667969

Wow. Can't belive that's a single pass. Gonna try with pork this weekend and take some pics. Will keep all the advice given in mind. I will have to look into trying those binders here soon. Have you ever tried this process without them. Also, are you adding water? Thanks!

 

[chopsaw]

Also, are you adding water? Thanks!

I do it a bit different than some . Since I use all pork , and just grind butts I add liquid and binder ( usually NFDM ) a little at a time until it comes together . My thought on that is since I'm not weighing lean to fat , it can be different every time . I use salt at 1.8 % . Then add water ( or beer or wine ) in small amounts and mix . Same with the milk powder if I'm using it . I mix , and if it needs more I'll add a bit more . Mix , and repeat until it comes together . The phosphates and erythorbate I use at the low end of the recommended percentage .
To much liquid is a fast wat to dry out or ruin the texture in sausage .

 

[zachyweezer]

I do it a bit different than some . Since I use all pork , and just grind butts I add liquid and binder ( usually NFDM ) a little at a time until it comes together . My thought on that is since I'm not weighing lean to fat , it can be different every time . I use salt at 1.8 % . Then add water ( or beer or wine ) in small amounts and mix . Same with the milk powder if I'm using it . I mix , and if it needs more I'll add a bit more . Mix , and repeat until it comes together . The phosphates and erythorbate I use at the low end of the recommended percentage .
To much liquid is a fast wat to dry out or ruin the texture in sausage .

I've started doing this myself. Thanks for the information. Like I say, I'm giving it a second go here shortly and will keep yall posted.

 

[chopsaw]

Have you ever tried this process without them.

I use sodium erythorbate in all of the smoked sausages I make . Sets the color and adds to the texture . Most use it to speed up the cure of the meat , but that's not why I use it .
I usually don't use the phosphates in sausage . Mostly NFDM . Just depends on what it is . I have potato starch , NFDM , soy isolate , soy concentrate . It just depends , but I like the milk powder the best .

 

[chopsaw]

keep yall posted.

Interested in your results .

 

[Danblacksher]

I have done both and with beef only I do 60/40 with pork 70/30 and with beef pork mix 70/30 and have had great results with 2 grinds. Homemade dogs are just incredible. Homemade Chili cheese dogs are an addiction.

 

[zachyweezer]

I have done both and with beef only I do 60/40 with pork 70/30 and with beef pork mix 70/30 and have had great results with 2 grinds. Homemade dogs are just incredible. Homemade Chili cheese dogs are an addiction.

I'm hoping for a winner. Is it your experience that the more you grind and mix the more spongy the product? I appreciate it!

 

[zachyweezer]

I guess my reasoning behind the triple grind stems from the fact that hot dogs are emulsified. I figured a triple grind wouldn't over work the meat any more than a food processor would.

 

[Danblacksher]

I'm hoping for a winner. Is it your experience that the more you grind and mix the more spongy the product? I appreciate it!

I use a hand crank mixer and keep everything really cold. For me sending a brisket thru the big die then the small die has worked. I just mix until I get the hot dog texture then refrigerate again before stuffing.

 

[zachyweezer]

I use a hand crank mixer and keep everything really cold. For me sending a brisket thru the big die then the small die has worked. I just mix until I get the hot dog texture then refrigerate again before stuffing.

nice dogs. look delicious...and juicy!

 

[chopsaw]

figured a triple grind wouldn't over work the meat any more than a food processor would.

I've done both . Way more effort to double grind in my experience . Plus you can add ice chips or cold water to keep the fat in the mix . Pulsing the food processor VS constant running of the grinder .
This was some uncured Bockwurst I did .
I had 2 1/2 pounds of grind . I go light on the liquid when mixing because I'm adding more in the food processor .
Split in half . Processed on the left . One grind and mixed on the right .

Done and mixed together . It's sticky , and no liquid in the bowl means it's in the meat paste .

These were poached . Great texture , but I can get real close with one grind .
So that's what I do most of the time .

 

[Danblacksher]

I've done both . Way more effort to double grind in my experience . Plus you can add ice chips or cold water to keep the fat in the mix . Pulsing the food processor VS constant running of the grinder .
This was some uncured Bockwurst I did .
I had 2 1/2 pounds of grind . I go light on the liquid when mixing because I'm adding more in the food processor .
Split in half . Processed on the left . One grind and mixed on the right .
View attachment 668032
Done and mixed together . It's sticky , and no liquid in the bowl means it's in the meat paste .
View attachment 668033
These were poached . Great texture , but I can get real close with one grind .
So that's what I do most of the time .
View attachment 668034

I think it boils down to what can consistently work for you. Plus I have noticed the small die on different grinders are different. On my cheap grinder the small die is much smaller than the LEM grinder I just got. So the next time I do dogs I may need a third grind.

 

[zwiller]

Have not run franks yet but have read up plenty and think the key is more fat than typical for them. IIRC most commercial dogs push near 50/50 meat/fat so the versions we're making are like low fat versions. That could be good or bad. To me it's one of those thing you gotta play with to find out how you like. From here if you are really into emulsified stuff find a Champion mixer. Does a better job than a FP. With the Champion the texture is more delicate. That said, double grind works REALLY well. Not night and day differences between the 2, but you CAN tell. I LOVE emulsified stuff so I splurged but not necessary. Horrible pic but here is WW thru the Champion. Got some air in these but that's another thread. Back to what I said tho, I think you want more fat to get close to pro franks.

 

[zachyweezer]

Have not run franks yet but have read up plenty and think the key is more fat than typical for them. IIRC most commercial dogs push near 50/50 meat/fat so the versions we're making are like low fat versions. That could be good or bad. To me it's one of those thing you gotta play with to find out how you like. From here if you are really into emulsified stuff find a Champion mixer. Does a better job than a FP. With the Champion the texture is more delicate. That said, double grind works REALLY well. Not night and day differences between the 2, but you CAN tell. I LOVE emulsified stuff so I splurged but not necessary. Horrible pic but here is WW thru the Champion. Got some air in these but that's another thread. Back to what I said tho, I think you want more fat to get close to pro franks.

View attachment 668038

So you could you get away with a 50% fat content without a true emulsification?

Still trying to figure out why 30% fat with my regular sausages is so juicy and perfect but doesn't seem to translate well into finer textured sausages.

Great looking sausages, btw.

 

[zwiller]

So you could you get away with a 50% fat content without a true emulsification?

Still trying to figure out why 30% fat with my regular sausages is so juicy and perfect but doesn't seem to translate well into finer textured sausages.

Great looking sausages, btw.

I believe so but not much talk on the max fat usually the opposite. My thinking is there is always SOME level of emulsification, even in a single grind. A double is basically a real emulsification. No doubt a binder will help. Thanks, pretty much learned it all here.

 

[zachyweezer]

I believe so but not much talk on the max fat usually the opposite. My thinking is there is always SOME level of emulsification, even in a single grind. A double is basically a real emulsification. No doubt a binder will help. Thanks, pretty much learned it all here.

Thanks so much!

 

[zachyweezer]

It's possible that the texture of your hot dogs feels leaner due to the triple grind and the finer texture of the meat. When you triple grind the meat, it breaks down the fat more thoroughly and distributes it more evenly throughout the mixture. This can result in a smoother texture and make the fat less noticeable compared to when you use a single grind with larger pieces of fat. Additionally, the casing used for hot dogs, such as cellulose casings, can also contribute to a different perception of texture compared to other types of sausages. Hot dog casings are typically thinner and have a tighter adherence to the meat mixture, which can affect the overall mouthfeel. It's also worth noting that hot dogs are traditionally made with a leaner meat-to-fat ratio compared to other sausages. This is why you might perceive them as leaner compared to the regular smoked sausages you make. Overall, if you followed proper techniques and achieved a good texture and flavor, it's likely that your hot dogs turned out as intended. Different sausage recipes and styles can have variations in fat content and texture, so it's normal to experience differences between different types of sausages. If you prefer a different texture or want to experiment further, you can try adjusting the fat content or the grind size to see how it affects the final result. Ultimately, it's a matter of personal preference, and you can tailor your recipe to suit your taste preferences.

great post. yes, i suspected the first point you made concerning the greater distribution of fat.
i'm proud of the hot dogs i made but want something a little more succulent. here in texas, kolaches are a big deal; they're a super popular breakfast item and can be had at most doughnut places. it's basically a fine textured smoked sausage wrapped in a buttery pastry. they're really juicy. i guess that's what i'm after.
i started a new batch today and have been taking pictures. i've upped my fat content a bit and did less grinding. within the next day or two, i'll post some pics.

 

[zachyweezer]

To all interested. I just posted a new thread with pics in the sausage forum. Thanks!

 

[slavikborisov]

Hey all.

When I make regular smoked sausage, whether pork or beef, I do 70/30 and typically a single grind. It's always super juicy and just what we like.

As for my recent attempt at hot dogs, they were just ok. I did a 70/30 ratio, triple grind through a fine plate, mixed like a mad man, and stuffed into cellulose casings. Everything was extremely cold. Smoked the next day at 150 for a couple hours and finished in the smoker. No fat out. Everything was perfect

The hot dogs seem extremely lean to me, however. They're nor bad, but I cant believe just how lean the bite is. Again, not grainy or anything.

Could this be because of the triple grind? Am I used to larger pieces of fat and only feel the sausage is leaner because it's more distributed? Am I going crazy ?

I had this same exact problem and haven’t nailed down my issue also haven’t tried it since!