Getting to the bottom of what happens to cure in smoked sausage

[hog warden]

BTW, I should also add that when I use cure in sausage, it is added as 1 tsp Instacure #1 per 5 pounds of meat (.25% by weight) first dissolved into ice water, which is added at rate of 10% of meat by weight. It is essentially a brine that is mixed until the sausage turns tacky and sticky to the touch. More than enough mixing to expose every particle of the meat to the the brine. All this takes place at least an hour before stuffing.

 

[indaswamp]

how much time does it take for the nitrite in the cures we use in sausage to convert to nitric oxide

Well, I can promise you it has been discussed here over the years I have been a member. This is one time where I miss chef jimmyj...he could definitely add to the conversation.

What I do know is that conversion of nitrite to nitric oxide gas happens almost completely so that by the time you are finished smoking/cooking the sausages, there will not be much nitrite left....maybe 10% or less....

 

[indaswamp]

BTW, I should also add that when I use cure in sausage, it is added as 1 tsp Instacure #1 per 5 pounds of meat (.25% by weight) first dissolved into ice water, which is added at rate of 10% of meat by weight. It is essentially a brine that is mixed until the sausage turns tacky and sticky to the touch. More than enough mixing to expose every particle of the meat to the the brine. All this takes place at least an hour before stuffing.

You are good following that procedure....

 

[geostriata]

If that is true, then most of the sausage books are not wrong, they just fail to clarify leading to misleading and confusing conclusions.

Critical endgame is a safe product to eat.

If it indeed took a day the nitrates to diffuse into commutated meat for safety, then many of the Marianski recipes would be unsafe to eat. As such, I think it's more of a fault-in-omission and not safety.

The great links @indiaswamp provided seem to be about solid meat diffusion, so I still believe that the nitrates are effective within minutes after mixing (or at least under 2 hours). So since we haven't much external sources on this, I suppose I can just order some nitrate detection paper and do a few mins of mixing on my next batch and we can have empirical evidence one way or another.

 

[indaswamp]

Nitrate and nitrite travel into meat at a rate of 1/8" per day...but this is on all sides of the meat, so total penetration is 1/4" per day. For particles less than 1/4", the cure has penetrated to the center in less than a day. Penetration also speeds up with increase in temperature so this is why it is ok to stuff, then smoke immediately. However, color formation will intensify if you let the cured meat paste sit under refrigeration. More NO2 gas will latch on to the myoglobin leading to a darker pinkish color. This has been proven through testing.

 

[geostriata]

For particles less than 1/4", the cure has penetrated to the center in less than a day. Penetration also speeds up with increase in temperature so this is why it is ok to stuff, then smoke immediately.

We agree the color/flavor arguments, but I think it's the specific amount of time required for safety figure that I'm trying to reconcile, and I believe what hog warden is trying to reconcile as well.

In other words, when only talking about diffusion speed, "less than a day" would mean you need to let it sit 24hrs for safety. When you factor in diffusion speed and temperature, perhaps that puts the figure squarely at "2 hours" (as Mariansky seems to indicate). That's the part I'm curious about. Even better would be a "diffusion speed in commutated meat vs. temperature" chart, but I haven't seem to be able to find that... So that's why I'm focusing on 2hrs vs. 24hrs question (for safety only, not color/flavor). If we can agree on 2 (or find evidence one way or another for commutated meat), then I think hog warden has their answer.

 

[TNJAKE]

 

[Fueling Around]

Great thread and lots of information shared.

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What I do know is that conversion of nitrite to nitric oxide gas happens almost completely so that by the time you are finished smoking/cooking the sausages, there will not be much nitrite left....maybe 10% or less....

Marianski isn't as firm on the initial drying and smoking temps as Kutas. Kutas mostly has initial drying and smoking staying in the 130° for an extended time. Is this the temperature soak that fully cures the sausage? I have a gut feeling this is the key.
Blonder has a lot of research information, but he omitted the temperature factor.

 

[DougE]

Is this the temperature soak that fully cures the sausage? I have a gut feeling this is the key.

Good possibility since higher temps speed cure time. It is often the way of things that details are often left out in the write ups of sausage recipes.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Marianski may or may not be an authority in this thread but in the green book read chapter 11.

 

[indaswamp]

Great thread and lots of information shared.


Marianski isn't as firm on the initial drying and smoking temps as Kutas. Kutas mostly has initial drying and smoking staying in the 130° for an extended time. Is this the temperature soak that fully cures the sausage? I have a gut feeling this is the key.
Blonder has a lot of research information, but he omitted the temperature factor.

I trust Marianski as a source...Kutas, not so much.

 

[geostriata]

Marianski may or may not be an authority in this thread but in the green book read chapter 11.

Exactly. That's where I got the 2hr figure from.

Alternative curing, method 3:

• Mix meat with salt, Cure #1 and other ingredients. Stuff sausages and hang at room temperature for 2 hours. Transfer to a smokehouse. Apply smoke when sausages feel dry.

Several of his "quick" recipes with a low rest time say something like:

• Hold at room temperature for 60 minutes.
• Smoke at 60C for 60 minutes" (e.g., Augsburger, and Hot Links in 1001 recipes book)