Food Safety

[bluebombersfan]

To make a long story short I have recently been working with a guy that is about 15 years older then me and has been processing deer, making jerky, hams and all kinds of stuff the way his parents showed him way back when.  I have brought in tons of stuff for the guys to try and with this site and a few other books I have read it has made me a bit of the go to guy for questions.  I have had several arguements with this guy due to the fact that I am following the safety I have read and he feels that the way he was shown has never made anyone sick. 

I get the feeling he is out to prove me wrong OR show the rest of the guys that he is the expert at making sausage.  Today he brought in some venison pepperoni for me to taste,  It tasted great and the texture was pretty good.  He told me that it was his buddy that made it he wasn't sure if he used cure and it was cooked then hung in the basement to dry for three weeks. 

Now my question is how safe or how long can meat that has been properly cured (assuming this was) be hung at room temperature to dry? 

 

[venture]

My question is...why did you eat that meat when you didn't know how it was handled?

True, people can do things the old way.  Maybe people don't get sick.  Luck of the draw.  But many others might get sick from the same meat.

Too many questions to answer in this post.  Cure?  Temp? Humidity? Time? Even how the meat was handled in this case.

I would run like hell.

A lot of research and teaching is in order.

What is so hard about doing things right in the first place?

Good luck and good smoking.

 

[chef jimmyj]

There is no point in arguing with him. If his techniques are questionable then avoid eating anything that makes you nervous. Next time he brings in something questionable just smile, thank him and explain you had a big lunch and are too full to eat anything...JJ

 

[solaryellow]

There are a lot of variables that go into hanging meat at room temperature to cure. The 3 keys at a very high level are PH, cure, and moisture levels. You need the cure to prevent botulism. You also need a PH drop to stop the bad bacteria from growing while allowing the good bacteria to thrive. Go too far into acidity and you will kill the good bacteria as well. And you need the moisture the bacteria needs to thrive to dissipate, but you need a controlled environment to do this properly. Not enough humidity and the sausage will harden trapping moisture inside. Again, this is at a very very high level.

 

[bluebombersfan]

My question is...why did you eat that meat when you didn't know how it was handled?

True, people can do things the old way.  Maybe people don't get sick.  Luck of the draw.  But many others might get sick from the same meat.

Too many questions to answer in this post.  Cure?  Temp? Humidity? Time? Even how the meat was handled in this case.

I would run like hell.

A lot of research and teaching is in order.

What is so hard about doing things right in the first place?

Good luck and good smoking.

I only took a small taste of the meat before he told how it was handled.  I honestly almost spit it out. 

 

[bluebombersfan]

There is no point in arguing with him. If his techniques are questionable then avoid eating anything that makes you nervous. Next time he brings in something questionable just smile, thank him and explain you had a big lunch and are too full to eat anything...JJ

Great idea!

 

[bluebombersfan]

There are a lot of variables that go into hanging meat at room temperature to cure. The 3 keys at a very high level are PH, cure, and moisture levels. You need the cure to prevent botulism. You also need a PH drop to stop the bad bacteria from growing while allowing the good bacteria to thrive. Go too far into acidity and you will kill the good bacteria as well. And you need the moisture the bacteria needs to thrive to dissipate, but you need a controlled environment to do this properly. Not enough humidity and the sausage will harden trapping moisture inside. Again, this is at a very very high level.

Thanks for the post that makes sense.  I guess I put my post up assuming that he did in fact use cure #1 but more to find out how long a properly cooked and cured sausage could hang in a typical basement.  I guess not knowing the relative humidity is a big factor though.  

 

[solaryellow]

There are a lot of variables that go into hanging meat at room temperature to cure. The 3 keys at a very high level are PH, cure, and moisture levels. You need the cure to prevent botulism. You also need a PH drop to stop the bad bacteria from growing while allowing the good bacteria to thrive. Go too far into acidity and you will kill the good bacteria as well. And you need the moisture the bacteria needs to thrive to dissipate, but you need a controlled environment to do this properly. Not enough humidity and the sausage will harden trapping moisture inside. Again, this is at a very very high level.

Thanks for the post that makes sense.  I guess I put my post up assuming that he did in fact use cure #1 but more to find out how long a properly cooked and cured sausage could hang in a typical basement.  I guess not knowing the relative humidity is a big factor though.  

Here is a thread I started 9 months ago about dry curing if you want a deeper explanation. http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/114766/dry-curing-through-the-eyes-of-a-newbie-updated-2-20-12

 

[bluebombersfan]

There are a lot of variables that go into hanging meat at room temperature to cure. The 3 keys at a very high level are PH, cure, and moisture levels. You need the cure to prevent botulism. You also need a PH drop to stop the bad bacteria from growing while allowing the good bacteria to thrive. Go too far into acidity and you will kill the good bacteria as well. And you need the moisture the bacteria needs to thrive to dissipate, but you need a controlled environment to do this properly. Not enough humidity and the sausage will harden trapping moisture inside. Again, this is at a very very high level.

Thanks for the post that makes sense.  I guess I put my post up assuming that he did in fact use cure #1 but more to find out how long a properly cooked and cured sausage could hang in a typical basement.  I guess not knowing the relative humidity is a big factor though.  

Here is a thread I started 9 months ago about dry curing if you want a deeper explanation. http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/114766/dry-curing-through-the-eyes-of-a-newbie-updated-2-20-12

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Thanks for the link!!