First smoke this weekend - Pork Steaks! Please review my plans

[forluvofsmoke]

Yeah, if the smoke was weaker than you'd like, the initial open grate cooking can be longer, as well as a heavier smoke output from the source. When you described them going from fall apart to basically a stiffer and somewhat drier steak, that was my first thought...go a bit longer on open grate, less foiled and less on the final stage. You should be just setting up the sauce a bit. After the foiling, it probably won't take very long to dry them out, so a 15-20 minute open grate ride would do the job. Due to marinating, you lost some firmness in the meat, so that may have had a big impact on that initial fall apart tenderness when you foiled. I do think if more smoke is desired, 3-0.5-0.25 would get you a lot closer to very tender with a slight firmness to the surface and a light setting of the sauce. Now, that's if you were to use the same marinade recipe and time. With shoulder cuts, they're more forgiving than chops, as they have more collagen and fat, so they can take a higher finished temp. If they got dried out and began to toughen up at the end, it was just too much for too long.

Oh, I didn't think about this until right now, but a longer marinating may cause a reduced smoke reaction as well...being the acidity begins to break down the meat fibers on the surface, the smoke may not want to stick to it as easily...not sure on that, just a theory. I do remember reading about courser dry rub particles attracting more smoke as well. That said, maybe, just maybe, a salt brine would be the best route to go...brine will also bulk-up the meat with water while a lower salt marinade won't as much for retained water, so brine may help during the last hour or so of cooking, to have enough left inside so it doesn't get as dried-out. After all, with shoulder cuts, a truly tender piece is basically getting the daylights cooked out of it, so to have that extra edge may be all it takes to keep it moist.

I did some digging through some old threads I started on small cuts of brined pork...this may give some more insight on what brining your pork steaks & chops can do for you. The chops and CSRs I did were straight smoked, no-foil, but I did get a smoke ring and a good amount of smoke flavor on all of these. I tried to right click on the pics to open in a new tab to zoom-in tight, but the image is from somewhere else...dunno what's up with that...but you can see them pretty well, anyway. Also, for a closer view, push ctrl and +, and keep tapping + until it's at the zoom you want. To return to normal view, push ctrl and -.

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...thin-cut-csrs-an-experiment-with-brine-q-view

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/104393/a-c-rbp-experimental-brined-smoked-chops-recipe-q-view

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/105971/ancho-rbp-brined-chops-with-hawg-heaven-rub-recipe-q-view

I don't know if there are very many others who have posted on this or not, but in the advanced search you may find more.

Hope this makes sense...I'm just trying to piece together the puzzle here. I haven't brined any small pork cuts for quite a while...liked doing it and enjoyed the results, but my interests have turned towards other methods since then, so I'm relying on memory and old posts to figure this out.

Let me know if you need to pick my brains more...LOL!!!

Eric

 

[forluvofsmoke]

 
Wow Eric, thank you so much for the detailed response... I'm going to have to read that again tomorrow!  I really hope this doesn't come in the way of my analysis of how everything turned out.  I broke out the bottle of American Honey for the bbq sauce and the spray.  One thing lead to another...

american honey.jpg

• turick
• May 24, 2014

Ooooooh, boy...I didn't see this post earlier...LOL!!! Looks like it got pretty much tapped-out...and I'm betting it wasn't all in the sauce and spray, either. Hope your head doesn't feel too big and hollow in the morning.

You're most welcome for the info...always happy to help when I can.

Eric

 

[Bearcarver]

Looks like Eric has you covered pretty good, Josh.

Only thing I can say to try is follow my CSR Step by Step, but change it to 2-2-and after the second 2 just put a little sauce on it & flip it around on a hot grill to set the sauce a bit. I would skip the marinade/Brine, and just coat it with yellow mustard & then a coating of Pork Rub. Then for that first 2 hours, go with straight Hickory Pellets. The Dry Pork Rub & the straight Hickory pellets should give you more of a smoky flavor, and the 2 hours in foil should keep it from drying up. That's about exactly how I've done CSRs since that one I have in my Step by Step.

Keep us posted on what you do & how it works.

Bear

 

[turick]

So I think I need to really get things back to the basics before I go off doing so many crazy things like I did this time. I think I tend to suffer from thinking more is better when I cook.

Pork steaks from the grocery store typically cost somewhere between $0.99 and $1.79 per pound. The custom cut ones I got were $3.19. I think I'm going to stick with the cheap ones, and a regular bottle of bbq sauce for the next few pork steak smokes and skip the brine until I can figure out the best way to smoke the meat.

I think next time I'll do a couple of the pork steaks with a 3-0.5-0.25 a couple going for a straight 4 hour smoke, and a then maybe a 2-2 or a 2-1-1 using hickory. I'll probably taste test every hour or so and keep notes about how each group is doing, then make modifications from there.

So this might be an incredibly dumb question, but having the AMNPS means the temperature of the smoker isn't tied to the production of smoke. Is there any value in cold smoking the meat before or perhaps reducing the heat in the last stage? Or is that just a waste. I'm sure I'm being paranoid because of how things turned out, but thought it was worth asking.

I'm going to spend some time going over your step-by-step John and all the links Eric posted and then I'll try this little experiment again! Oh ya, and if you guys ever get the inclination and have never had a pork steak, you should give it a shot! :)

Thank you guys so much for all of your help! More on this soon!

 

[turick]

Hope this makes sense...I'm just trying to piece together the puzzle here. I haven't brined any small pork cuts for quite a while...liked doing it and enjoyed the results, but my interests have turned towards other methods since then, so I'm relying on memory and old posts to figure this out.

Eric, care to share what your other methods are?

 

[Bearcarver]

So I think I need to really get things back to the basics before I go off doing so many crazy things like I did this time. I think I tend to suffer from thinking more is better when I cook. I think most of us start out that way.

Pork steaks from the grocery store typically cost somewhere between $0.99 and $1.79 per pound. The custom cut ones I got were $3.19. I think I'm going to stick with the cheap ones, and a regular bottle of bbq sauce for the next few pork steak smokes and skip the brine until I can figure out the best way to smoke the meat. Probably a good idea.

I think next time I'll do a couple of the pork steaks with a 3-0.5-0.25 a couple going for a straight 4 hour smoke, and a then maybe a 2-2 or a 2-1-1 using hickory. I'll probably taste test every hour or so and keep notes about how each group is doing, then make modifications from there. Sounds Great----Always take notes. I'm on my 6th Spiral Notebook!!

So this might be an incredibly dumb question, but having the AMNPS means the temperature of the smoker isn't tied to the production of smoke. Is there any value in cold smoking the meat before or perhaps reducing the heat in the last stage? Or is that just a waste. I'm sure I'm being paranoid because of how things turned out, but thought it was worth asking. Once you get to curing, you may want to cold smoke longer or warm smoke longer, but until then, without using cure you don't want to do that. With ground meat or any meat that has been Injected or Probed before starting, you must go from 40* IT to 140* IT in no longer than 4 hours.

I'm going to spend some time going over your step-by-step John and all the links Eric posted and then I'll try this little experiment again! Oh ya, and if you guys ever get the inclination and have never had a pork steak, you should give it a shot! :)

Thank you guys so much for all of your help! More on this soon!

Bear

 

[forluvofsmoke]

John covered you last post pretty well.

As far as cold/warm smoking fresh meats, you need to understand the risks involved before you do that, so you can mitigate them. I have done cold/warm smokes for reverse sear of small cuts...that's actually a requested method of cooking at my house for steaks, chicken pieces, burgers, sausage, dogs, etc. Time in the cold/warm smoke has to be limited...I usually go no more than 1 hour, generally 30-40 minutes, depending on ambient temps, size of pieces being smoked, etc. Then, build up the fire with fresh hot lump/briqs and let 'er rip for the sear. There really is nothing better for a nice smoke and good amount of sear...best of both worlds (smoked and chargrilled). Before anyone attempts this, I do recommend you toss it around with someone who has experience...there's more to it that what I just wrote, but it's mostly about food safety, as John eluded to briefly, above.

I will add that for smoking near the end of cooking, it's debatable whether you will notice any additional smoke flavor or not. Most of the smoke adheres to the meat when the internal temperature is fairly low...smoke sticks to cooler objects better than it does to hot objects...think of how water condensation forms on surfaces, like when there's a light mist/fog in the early morning when you drive to work, You can remove if from the windshield with the wipers, but it keeps collecting...turn on the defrost to warm the glass and it goes away...presto!!! That said, unless I have some chunks smoldering away yet from earlier in the cook, once I get to about the 1/2-2/3 mark on cooking time, I don't smoke .anymore,

This is a great read with tons of research and experimenting on the subject of smoke, how it does what it does with our food...it brought up a lot of thoughts on a project I was working on at the time, which is directly related to your question about what methods I've been working on that changed my interests away from brining (and marinating, actually).

Here's the low-down on smoke...excellent read...grab a cold one and get comfy, 'cuz this write-up explains it quite well and demonstrates why:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/139474/understanding-smoke-management-updated-5-18-13

And lastly:

"Eric, care to share what your other methods are?"

Ask and yea shall receive...this is in my signature line, btw...get comfy for this one, too...more of an advanced method, but it's too easy to use to not want to use it...trial runs with multiple meats included:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/a/wet-to-dry-no-foil-smoke-chamber-method-for-smoking-meats

Coming up on 2 years now with that method...wait...it's over 2 years now. I gave up trying to find something it wouldn't work for, within reason of course, but for hot smoking meats, it's my go-to. Pulled Pork, Brisket and Ribs are my favorites, but it goes a lot farther than that.

Take your time reading...lots to digest there...questions come up, fire away. I checked on Mr T's profile, and he was on about 5 days ago, so if you want to quiz him about his post he'll probably be around after a couple days and answer you...or I can probably help as well...he and I think a lot alike when it comes to smoke..LOL!!!

Eric

 

[turick]

Ok John.... your CSR recipe is going to be followed for attempt #2 this afternoon!  Pics and results to follow....

 

[Bearcarver]

 
Ok John.... your CSR recipe is going to be followed for attempt #2 this afternoon!  Pics and results to follow....

That's Great, Josh!!

Biggest thing on CSRs is keep an eye on them late in the game. They're easy to overcook & can then get a little dry.

Bear

 

[turick]

Well, I got side-tracked yesterday and never got to do this, so I'll be making them today.

John, I was wondering, if I'm going to throw them on the grill at the end to finish them, should I skip the foil in the smoker?  Since they won't be getting any smoke at that step, isn't that just akin to baking them?  I have a daughter who likes to bake her pork steaks, but I find both the texture and flavor pretty, um, not good when she does.  Should I just try 2 hours in the smoke, or possibly even 3, then go straight to slapping some sauce on them and throwing them on the grill?

 

[Bearcarver]

 
Well, I got side-tracked yesterday and never got to do this, so I'll be making them today.

John, I was wondering, if I'm going to throw them on the grill at the end to finish them, should I skip the foil in the smoker?  Since they won't be getting any smoke at that step, isn't that just akin to baking them?  I have a daughter who likes to bake her pork steaks, but I find both the texture and flavor pretty, um, not good when she does.  Should I just try 2 hours in the smoke, or possibly even 3, then go straight to slapping some sauce on them and throwing them on the grill?

Actually I would cut the Step #1 from 3 to 2 hours in the smoke. Then 2 hours in foil with the juice. Then sauce them & flip them around on a hot grill to sear the sauce & bubble up the surface of the meat. Check the thickest internal temp before you throw them on the grill. They only have to be 145* IT, but much higher won't hurt, just like regular Pork Ribs.

Bear

 

[turick]

OK! It's go time! I have 4 pork steaks, so I'm going to experiment a bit. 2 will go for a 2-2 with a finish on the grill. One will just take 2 hours of smoke with a finish on the grill. The one will do a 2-2-1 with no grill. We will see what happens!

20140624_145419.jpg

• turick
• Jun 24, 2014

 

[turick]

Hmm... Just realized my first mistake and not sure how I overlooked this. I slimed them up with mustard and coated them in rub and threw them in the smoker instead of doing it last night and letting them sit... Hope that's not a big deal...

 

[Bearcarver]

Hmm... Just realized my first mistake and not sure how I overlooked this. I slimed them up with mustard and coated them in rub and threw them in the smoker instead of doing it last night and letting them sit... Hope that's not a big deal...

Not a big deal---I know some who do it that way all the time, and some only an hour or two before.

I like to do it over night or at least 3 or 4 hours, but some say it gets mushy that way----I never noticed it!!

Bear

 

[turick]

So the first one came out of the smoke box, got doused in BBQ sauce, and went on to the grill at a high temp... Each side 5 minutes or so. The Mrs. and I both agree that it's the best pork steak we've ever had, which is saying A LOT coming from 2 St. Louisans who've water bbqed pork steaks their entire lives.

It is tender and juicy with amazing flavor, yet it still didn't taste smokey, however. To any average neighbor, I guarantee they would be blown away because this really is a staple around here, but it's still funny that it didn't get much smoke. If this ends up being the best out of the bunch, I'd do it again, but light the AMNPS at both ends.

It really doesn't look like much, but darn it's good....

20140624_172751.jpg

• turick
• Jun 24, 2014

Because it's not smokey, I've decided to change up the experiment.

One is in foil for 2 hours and is going to get another hour of smoke at the end.

Another is in foil with holes poked in it, and is going to sit in the smoker for 2 hours and get the BBQ treatment.

The last has no holes in the foil, will stay in the smoker for 2 hours, and get the BBQ treatment at the end.

More results to follow!

 

[Bearcarver]

So the first one came out of the smoke box, got doused in BBQ sauce, and went on to the grill at a high temp... Each side 5 minutes or so. The Mrs. and I both agree that it's the best pork steak we've ever had, which is saying A LOT coming from 2 St. Louisans.

It is tender and juicy with amazing flavor, yet it still didn't taste smokey, however. To any average neighbor, I guarantee they would be blown away because this really is a staple around here, but it's still funny that it didn't get much smoke. If this ends up being the best out of the bunch, I'd do it again, but light the AMNPS at both ends.

It really doesn't look like much, but darn it's good....



Because it's not smokey, I've decided to change up the experiment.

One is in foil for 2 hours and is going to get another hour of smoke at the end.

Another is in foil with holes poked in it, and is going to sit in the smoker for 2 hours and get the BBQ treatment.

The last has no holes in the foil, will stay in the smoker for 2 hours, and get the BBQ treatment at the end.

More results to follow!

Always good to experiment. Be careful not to dry them out.

Not smoky??

Didn't take much smoke color either.

What did you use?

I use straight Hickory Pellets.

Bear

 

[turick]

I'm using pitmasters choice pellets. I'm not sure if it ever changes, but I think it's a combo of Hickory and cherry.

That was how I ended up ruining the first batch... I thought they weren't smokey enough and put them back in the smoker, which dried them out.

They seem to want more smoke and less cooking.

 

[turick]

John, do you think it might be a good idea to smoke them at a lower temp for a while at first? It's yet to be seen how the rest will turn out, but so far, the wife and I are pretty crazy about the first one with little smokey flavor...

 

[turick]

So... The winner is the 2-2-1. The grill seemed to toughen the meat up. But the last pork steak was the most flavorful and the most tender, but still not very smokey. The next batch will be all 2-2-1, but I will add BBQ sauce for the last hour, and I will also light the AMNPS from both ends to make it even more smokey.

We have more pork steaks in the freezer so we will probably do it again this weekend, and I'll start a new thread! Here is the final picture, although you can't really tell the difference between any of them, and it's after several taste tests!

20140624_200606.jpg

• turick
• Jun 24, 2014

 

[Bearcarver]

Josh,

I don't know how good of notes you took, but I would pick the one that came out with the right amount of moistness, and use the timings & temps you used for that one.

As for the smoke flavor I would try one end lit with 100% Hickory, which is what I use all the time. Then if that doesn't work, then go with whatever pellets & light both ends.

I know one time I used 100% Hickory, and I lit both ends, but it was so heavy that I put the one end out-----And I'm what I consider a "Smoke-Hog"!!

Bear