Fat Out Discussion.

[SmokinEdge]

Sage advice.

I think some may miss that mixing temps matter as much as grinding temps. I always chill my grind back down prior to mixing to keep the fat particles defined rather than having them smeared into the meat.

This is a Bingo point. There are a few ways that fat can smear, but mixing to warm is a common one. The meat mix needs to be cold enough to really make your hands cold. This is why a lot of guys use the knit gloves under the latex.

 

[Fueling Around]

This is a Bingo point. There are a few ways that fat can smear, but mixing to warm is a common one. The meat mix needs to be cold enough to really make your hands cold. This is why a lot of guys use the knit gloves under the latex.

I use the cheapo knit under the nitryl to keep my hands from getting cold and to keep my hands from warming the meat.

After the mixing and protein is done, then I will let it warm up for the stuffing. Yes the stuffing process can smear, but minimal compared to the mixing.

 

[DougE]

This is a Bingo point. There are a few ways that fat can smear, but mixing to warm is a common one. The meat mix needs to be cold enough to really make your hands cold. This is why a lot of guys use the knit gloves under the latex.

Due to nerve damage in my spine, my hands don't sense hot or cold temps normally, but even with my limited ability to sense temps, yeah, even my hands get cold mixing. I am able to mix with just latex or nitrile gloves, though it does get a little uncomfortable by the time I have good protein extraction.

 

[zwiller]

I have been so paranoid of temps and smearing etc I never used my hands to mix but a fork until recently. Mind you 1Kg/2.2lb batches usually. That said, @chopsaw has been leaning on me to get me to take it to another level and use my hands so I have on the last few and pretty shocked at the results. Do not think the "upside down" bind test is enough and is only the starting point. Seems like there's a point where the product wants to stay together and sticks less to the sides of the bowl. That's where I've been stopping. Have not run any SS doing that yet but last batch I ran was weisswurst for TG and the results were very impressive. Product was much better overall. Cellulose casing. Firmer, texture/bite was better and more "pro" for lack of a better word, sheen on the outside (which never really had before), and even the ends looked more again "pro". These were double grind only/hand mix at stuff and were even better than the past stuff I ran through the Champion. Curious what a good hand mix BEFORE the Champion would do! Was also noticeably less liquid/fat loss out of the SV. So yeah on Team Mix Well now.

 

[pineywoods]

I believe it's all about temperatures at every stage. Grinding, Mixing, Stuffing, Smoking not done at the proper temps or close to them you risk fat out. Not keeping proper temps during a stage may not always result in fat out but can. Don't maintain proper temps during more than one step and your risk really rises

 

[mr_whipple]

I've been trying to reply to this thread but been kinda busy. All great info for beginner amateur sausage makers like myself. I have had one fat out failure, but not with smoked sausage, rather salami. I smeared my fat during the grinding phase, but I contribute the failure to dull grinding plate/knife problems. I was keen on temp control and every other aspect of the process so it left only that, and I had zero knowledge at the time regarding sharpening them. In fact I was using the hand me down Weston #8 with what I now know were some pretty dull pieces. Lesson learned on that.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Smoking/cooking heat alone is a long shot as a cause for fat out. It really all is in the process, not the cooking, unless you just really neglect your duty as a cook.

 

[Gonna Smoke]

I'm still hanging around trying to soak up all this good info...

 

[indaswamp]

Smoking/cooking heat alone is a long shot as a cause for fat out. It really all is in the process, not the cooking, unless you just really neglect your duty as a cook.

This is why I much prefer pasteurization. I can finish the cooking process at a lower temperature and ensure no fat out; and still follow USDA approved methods. I am not knocking sous vide or water bath finish on sausages, it is just hard to do on larger batches 80-100#. And IMO not necessary if you have a smokehouse that can maintain steady low temps. below about 160-165*F.
I slowly ramp up smoke chamber temps. and when INT. reaches 136*F, I start a timer. Pull them after 1.5 hours. This gives a minimum LOG7 reduction in pathogens (10^7; or 10,000,000) but could be as high as LOG9. The sausages are done.....totally safe to consume. And I have never had fat out following this procedure. Final INT could be 142-152 depending on the mass of sausage in the smokehouse. Larger batches will tend to lower overall INT; but it really does not matter. Links will be firm and juicy!

 

[Brokenhandle]

This is why I much prefer pasteurization. I can finish the cooking process at a lower temperature and ensure no fat out; and still follow USDA approved methods. I am not knocking sous vide or water bath finish on sausages, it is just hard to do on larger batches 80-100#. And IMO not necessary if you have a smokehouse that can maintain steady low temps. below about 160-165*F.
I slowly ramp up smoke chamber temps. and when INT. reaches 136*F, I start a timer. Pull them after 1.5 hours. This gives a minimum LOG7 reduction in pathogens (10^7; or 10,000,000) but could be as high as LOG9. The sausages are done.....totally safe to consume. And I have never had fat out following this procedure. Final INT could be 142-152 depending on the mass of sausage in the smokehouse. Larger batches will tend to lower overall INT; but it really does not matter. Links will be firm and juicy!

No expert here, just following along but I'm with Inda, in my eyes if you stay away from the too high of temps that might cause fat out you're taking away one possibility. Can't have fat out at the temps he runs.

Ryan

 

[SmokinEdge]

In my opinion. Fat out from cooking temp alone is a misnomer.

 

[Brokenhandle]

In my opinion. Fat out from cooking temp alone is a misnomer.

What do you mean by that?

Ryan

 

[indaswamp]

In my opinion. Fat out from cooking temp alone is a misnomer.

I say it is a matter of degree and depends on final cook temp. and duration. Anytime temps. above 225*F (as in when grilling sausages) are used, you will get fat out. Even with well made sausages with very good fat integrity.

Less of an issue at smoking temps, but can still happen once you go above around 175*F. Especially if you shoot for INT of 155-160*F where the sausages might be exposed to these temps. for a prolonged period of time. I will say though that this is more of an issue with larger batches vs. batches smaller than 10#.....

 

[DougE]

Less of an issue at smoking temps, but can still happen once you go above around 175*F. Especially if you shoot for INT of 155-160*F where the sausages might be exposed to these temps. for a prolonged period of time.

The one batch I had fat out on was in summer and I was running as low as the Camp Chef will go. My target was 151°IT. Ambient temps let things get too hot ........ I was on the zero turn mowing the yard, so was not keeping a close eye on the cooker temps. From then on, I went to just smoking for color and poaching to finish.

 

[Brokenhandle]

Should explain a bit more, my brain in this case is thinking in terms of sticks and summer sausage... mostly what I make, other than things like breakfast sausage. So temp thing could maybe be different?

Ryan

 

[pineywoods]

In my opinion. Fat out from cooking temp alone is a misnomer.

It can be from temp as Indaswamp said it could be above 175 but what I was talking about was people who can't control the temps in their smoking set up what ever it may be mostly I mean when smoker temps get above 200 or someone trying to smoke at 225-250 mostly from lack of knowledge.

 

[Brokenhandle]

It can be from temp as Indaswamp said it could be above 175 but what I was talking about was people who can't control the temps in their smoking set up what ever it may be mostly I mean when smoker temps get above 200 or someone trying to smoke at 225-250 mostly from lack of knowledge.

This thread has shown there are or could be many causes... if you're a newbie it's hard to know why.

Ryan

 

[pineywoods]

This thread has shown there are or could be many causes... if you're a newbie it's hard to know why.

Ryan

Amen and 30 something years ago when we started making sausage there was no SMF so we pretty much made all the mistakes learning how to do it

 

[indaswamp]

Amen and 30 something years ago when we started making sausage there was no SMF so we pretty much made all the mistakes learning how to do it

AMEN to that!

 

[SmokinEdge]

In my opinion. Fat out from cooking temp alone is a misnomer.

I said this from the context of following a smoke temperature schedule and not just putting sausage in a bbq pit and rolling with it.

Is it possible to over cook a sausage and get fat out? Absolutely it is possible, just as it is possible to over cook any meats. Over loading your smoker, not rotating sausages if you have hot spots, using a faulty thermometer and just not paying attention to the process are some ways to over cook and fat out a batch of sausages. However, if you are following a temperature schedule and a good process and still get fat out, it’s not likely temps. I assume most everyone here follows a schedule and has good process.