Coppa cutting advice

[thirdeye]

chopsaw please elaborate on the spiced ham roll. A sausage shop here makes a product they call Yakwurst, and numerous searches come up dry, so it's something they came up with. It's only made during the holidays, it is in a roll (cased) and has larger chunks of pork and lightly smoked. I've tried to duplicate it texture wise and your's looks kind of close.

I like the shoulder picnic too, and admittedly one reason is that it shaped like a mini rear leg ham. On the bone-in shoulder picnics I've made... a disadvantage is having to cut round the bone when slicing., maybe I'll try a boneless one.

 

[chopsaw]

That picnic came from a whole front shoulder . I boned it out , and put some pieces in to fill the voids . Part of the butt section is curing now for buckboard bacon . The rest was cubed for future sausage .
The spiced ham roll is a Len Poli formula . It's under lunch meats . I didn't follow it exactly .
I did use his wet cure method , and pork cushion for the meat . I used powdered gelatin as a " glue " . Spices were the same . The spice was a bit strong for me . I did it start to finish in a water proof casing in the SV . Left me with a lot of liquid in the bag . Drained off I let it rest a couple days . It was good . Better texture that I thought it would be. No leaks , but it goes in pretty wet .
I used my 5 lb Lem to stuff the chunks . I'm getting ready to do round two , with adjustments to what I know works for me .
I did Krakow awhile back , that was cured cubes and ground pork mixed . Then smoked . I liked that texture way better . So I might do a ham version of that . Maybe use a loaf pan to set , the remove the pan and roll some smoke .
I really like krakow , and this was as good as any I buy .

 

[zwiller]

YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME! Great shots. Some guys are bacon guys but I am a ham guy...

I use Dave's method on all my stuff but haven't used the no salt veggie stock on one YET. I used my various spice teas in place of the veggie stock. I am not saying my hams are not good, they are but fall short of Black Forest flavor to me.

 

[thirdeye]

That picnic came from a whole front shoulder . I boned it out , and put some pieces in to fill the voids . Part of the butt section is curing now for buckboard bacon . The rest was cubed for future sausage .
The spiced ham roll is a Len Poli formula . It's under lunch meats . I didn't follow it exactly .
I did use his wet cure method , and pork cushion for the meat . I used powdered gelatin as a " glue " . Spices were the same . The spice was a bit strong for me . I did it start to finish in a water proof casing in the SV . Left me with a lot of liquid in the bag . Drained off I let it rest a couple days . It was good . Better texture that I thought it would be. No leaks , but it goes in pretty wet .
I used my 5 lb Lem to stuff the chunks . I'm getting ready to do round two , with adjustments to what I know works for me .
I did Krakow awhile back , that was cured cubes and ground pork mixed . Then smoked . I liked that texture way better . So I might do a ham version of that . Maybe use a loaf pan to set , the remove the pan and roll some smoke .
I really like krakow , and this was as good as any I buy .
View attachment 486635

I have not read that Poli ham roll recipe, so I'll check that out.

It's funny you mentioned Krakow. The Greatest Sausage Recipes , by Marianski has three Krakowska recipes I've been looking at. I think I'll wait for your round two on the ham roll, and /or the hammy version of some Krakow. But I'd like to try either one, so keep up posted!

YOU GUYS ARE KILLING ME! Great shots. Some guys are bacon guys but I am a ham guy...

I use Dave's method on all my stuff but haven't used the no salt veggie stock on one YET. I used my various spice teas in place of the veggie stock. I am not saying my hams are not good, they are but fall short of Black Forest flavor to me.

I mainly brought up the stock because the veggie stock is unique and wondered if it would be a 'carrier' for some of the other flavors you want to add. Mrs ~t~ did confirm that we can get D&W Black Forest Ham at a couple of markets, so I'll get some for a taste test. She did mention that a few years ago she had some Black Forest ham in Germany and that it was black on the outside, and the inside was darker red with sort of a dry cured feel to it.

 

[chopsaw]

The one I did was from Marianski . Krakowska . I just used SS casings .
" Round 2 " idea being a ham tasting sausage . I'd leave out the spices and use the cubes with ground pork . Cure each , then mix and smoke .

I tried the phosphate injection with out the veg stock once . Fell short on taste for me .

 

[chopsaw]

I use Dave's method on all my stuff but haven't used the no salt veggie stock on one

You should try it as listed . I have found no reason to change it . I have added fennel and anise to the bag on a injected loin . It was really good .

Sam the pics you posted look fantastic . I think you need to do the cow's blood dip !

 

[zwiller]

Main reason I never did the veggie stock was my stores don't carry it but happened to find out my Walmart did so I grabbed some last night and made the injection and injected this morning. That is nice stock and will probably find uses for it in other things! It is interesting to me as it is sorta similar to the spice teas I made but MUCH more potent. Who knows, might be even better than the BF. By the way, when I made the spice teas, they were simmered for 2 hours for maximum extraction. Also interesting, if you look at Mariasnki's recipes which include juniper he says to make an extract of it with alcohol and not the spice itself.

I am deliberately putting off trying legit BF ham in fear I might like it too much I do plan on getting a chamber going someday but before then once I get a flavor I like I want to do the butcher paper hack and dry some. Laugh all you want but not kidding that I would source the blood if I got the flavor I wanted (but have black food coloring in my Amazon cart LOL).

Wayne and Rich those picnics are BEAUTIFUL. Wish I could find those here.

 

[thirdeye]

I'm sure you will keep us posted on your next run. I'm on day 5 or 6 myself curing some loin hams.

Today was shopping day and Mrs ~t~ did pick up some D&W BF ham from the deli. It does have the trademark black edge, and first I sampled a strip of mostly edge and did not notice any distinct seasoning like the European version has. The overall flavor was definitely a well balanced ham flavor, it was a tick saltier than I make my ham, bacon or Buckboard, and the texture was tighter than any of my hams or Buckboard.... but I think that would be typical of any commercially processed boneless ham product.

So, back to the flavor discussion and some clarification. For your home-made ham.... Are you trying to at least get a back-flavor as good as the D&W product, but increase the signature seasonings by using some of the traditional things like juniper or coriander? Or are you trying to clone the D&W flavor as-is straight from the deli?

 

[zwiller]

I really appreciate this! I agree there is no rub flavor on D&W and is on saltier side. I think this might actually be due to using less sugar than typical and one of the reasons I like it. Clone is a strong word to me as a homebrewer and judge. I think there is something unique going on with it and is different than typical hams. I could easily pick it out blindfolded even just by smell but I don't know what it is.

 

[thirdeye]

I think there is something unique going on with it and is different than typical hams. I could easily pick it out blindfolded even just by smell but I don't know what it is.

Okay, now I get where you are coming from. I could not notice a stand-alone flavor in the D&W that I sampled today, which is a good thing because you want a balance of flavor. But that doesn't help to nail down the spice(s) that gives it the flavor you like. I guess give the veggie stock a try because it would be a very agreeable base to build upon to make a signature injectable cure. And who knows you might like the flavor better.

Have you seen Prima Della brand 'Off The Bone Ham' at any of your meat counters? I like the flavor and texture of that brand.

 

[zwiller]

Looks like I can get that PD OTB at Walmart and looks like they even make it. Nothing really pops out in the ingredients except maybe vinegar and I've seen it used in a few other hams I like. I'll check it out.

Some info I gleaned after researching yet again. Marianski uses the juniper extract at a rate of .1% in a few recipes and a hidden nugget found in the ham section, liquid smoke is recommended at a rate of 1-5g per kg (.1-.5%) preferring the low end.

Back when I was active on homebrewing forums and would help guys with clone requests I would lower their expectations of cloning their favorite but would encourage them to think about WHY they want to clone and this often would help point us in the right direction. Honestly, I enjoy the challenge. I already have a few bucket list things basically checked off that I thought would take years to dial in. Strangely, a few of them are actually BETTER than I set out to re-create and who knows the veggie stock could be it.