Canning/Smoking Question

[sawhorseray]

Yesterday I picked up some salmon at Sam's going to be making some lox a la Smokin' Al's recipe, it's the best. I bought one fillet to can along with the leftover pink from trimming, I've been doing the kokanee we catch at Flaming Gorge for years in my All American 21 pressure cooker, chop it up bones and all, we love the stuff. I have a friend who does the same thing, tho he'll take a portion of what he's going to can in jars and lightly smoke for an hour for just a little different flavor, he uses no Cure #1. I was thinking of taking a small portion to smoke for a hour like my friend does before canning. Is this safe? RAY

 

[thirdeye]

The best answer is... canning smoked fish has gotten safer in the last 10 years. It's a long story but a recipe for 'smoked fish' was never 'officially' tested ( recipes for canning corned beef and ham haven't either), so the government recommended that it not be canned, and there was no mention of smoked fish in publications. However, most old school canners used 100 minutes which is the processing time for pints of fresh fish. In 2009 the National Center for Home Food Preservation did some testing with smoked fish and determined that 110 minutes should be used for smoked fish, and that more water should be used in the canner in order to bring up the temperature slower, and to allow a longer cooling time after processing.

The concern lies in the density of the fish in the jars, as cured and smoked fish being a tick more dense than raw. I can both fresh and flavor smoked in the 1/2 pint jars, and I use large pieces, so I always felt my technique is safe even though I still use 100 minutes. I also bend the 'raw pack' rules by adding a bit of water and oil to each jar. Here are some jars of cured/smoked and fresh steelhead. I only cold smoke fish to be canned for 2 to 2.5 hours so I don't use Cure #1. Many people only cold smoke for 1 hour.

 

[sawhorseray]

Thanks for the response 3rdeye. I've been canning kokes and salmon for about five years now, always in pint jars. My concern is canning "lightly smoked" salmon without using Cure #1, I don't want to be putting botulism in a bottle. I plan on one hour smoked with apple pellets using the A-Maze-N tube in the firebox of my offset SQ36 and the pink in the cook chamber. After an hour I'll take it out and let it cool in the fridge for a few hours, then can it along with all the raw unsmoked salmon. The elevation here is 1237' so I'll go with the #15 weight for 110 minutes. RAY

 

[thirdeye]

My cold smoking is always done in the cool months, and I either use a sawdust generator, or very small handfulls of pellets in my Big Chief and have the lid blocked open. The temperature of my last batch of fish was 40° to 45° at the end of the smoking cycle. Then I'll hold the fillets in the fridge while I get the canner set up. There have been a few times where I cold smoke for an hour, return to the fridge for 30 minutes, and repeat. I do the same thing when smoking cheese and butter, but I keep an aluminum tray in the fridge so those pieces move to something pre-chilled.

 

[sawhorseray]

I've got the little fillet going in my smoker right now. It's about 55º here and I just decide what the heck. I smoked salmon on a Big Chief since the late 70's and never used cure, just a brine and some honey, never had an issue. If I get botulism and die, well, it's been fun! RAY

 

[thirdeye]

You could always put a tray of ice on a grate below the one with the fish.

 

[sawhorseray]

I think I'm good to go 3rdeye, and thanks for all your help. I checked the temp of my firebox with the Greenpro laser, 81º, the cook chamber was 70º at the warmest spot, the salmon was 51º. I'll pull it in another half hour and throw it in the fridge, can everything tomorrow. I'll smoke the lox Wednesday morning when it's in the high 30's here. BTW, if you like lox Smokin' Al's step by step is a wonderful alltime recipe. I made some a couple months back and my wife said it was the best she'd ever had, and she's had a lot, loves the stuff. RAY

 

[kit s]

Yesterday I picked up some salmon at Sam's going to be making some lox a la Smokin' Al's recipe, it's the best. I bought one fillet to can along with the leftover pink from trimming, I've been doing the kokanee we catch at Flaming Gorge for years in my All American 21 pressure cooker, chop it up bones and all, we love the stuff. I have a friend who does the same thing, tho he'll take a portion of what he's going to can in jars and lightly smoke for an hour for just a little different flavor, he uses no Cure #1. I was thinking of taking a small portion to smoke for a hour like my friend does before canning. Is this safe? RAY

Well they do the smoking and canning of a lot of fish on the tv show Alaska the last frontier, and none of them have bellied up, so would say yes....just can as usual after smoking.

 

[thirdeye]

I think I'm good to go 3rdeye, and thanks for all your help. I checked the temp of my firebox with the Greenpro laser, 81º, the cook chamber was 70º at the warmest spot, the salmon was 51º. I'll pull it in another half hour and throw it in the fridge, can everything tomorrow. I'll smoke the lox Wednesday morning when it's in the high 30's here. BTW, if you like lox Smokin' Al's step by step is a wonderful alltime recipe. I made some a couple months back and my wife said it was the best she'd ever had, and she's had a lot, loves the stuff. RAY

I've read Al's method and it does look good. I don't have a reliable source for super fresh fish unless I opted to use trout.... but I will make Nova lox when friends return from Alaska, or I can purchase wild-caught Alaskan salmon. I do a double cure dry/wet and my Nova lox has sort of a candied look to it.

 

[sawhorseray]

Boy howdy, that looks gorgeous! I had access to fresh pink my entire life before we moved to AZ a half year ago, I had a 21' proline and lived 20 minutes from the Pacific ocean. Last year we missed our annual trip to Flaming Gorge where we slaughter kokanee, which are land-locked sockeye salmon, we like them more than ocean-fresh Chinooks. I've already got my spot booked for the summer, CG with full hook-up. It's never taken us more than 2&1/2 hours to limit out, a lot of times I've never had time to get the second DR in the water, it's bucket list koke fishing. With age and both hips being replaced I had to come to the realization that being out on the Big Pond in a small boat was for a younger day. We'll Lance back to CA and OR later this year to load up on Dungeness crab and maybe some fresh pink, but it'll happen on big party boats. A man who maintains respect for the ocean usually lives to fish another day. RAY

Bob likes it too, gets to bark at every boat he sees out on the water, and folks walking near camp. Bob loves everything about fish-camp, including my chair! RAY

 

[thirdeye]

Are you camped at Buckboard Crossing CG?

A few years ago, the Wyo Game and Fish introduced kokanee in Alcova reservoir about 30 miles from my house. They are just starting to get hooked and are in the 1.5 to 2.5 pound range. Last winter, hard water fishermen were pulling a few through the ice, but I think there is still open water this year.

 

[sawhorseray]

Are you camped at Buckboard Crossing CG?

Yes! Do you live in WY? We love Green River and were looking at moving there, but alas, we hate the cold. I get the same site every year at the CG, get up early and book six months in advance. This year I have two sites, a couple of friends will be there, along with another old bud who likes the RV park and brings another boat. RAY

 

[daveomak]

Ray, morning.... I just posted this on a Facebook canning thread....

It is common for fish to carry botulism bacteria... It washes into the lakes, rivers and ocean from the soil... It harbors in the gut and gills... Do NOT store salmon without gutting and gilling it first... I add cure#1 to all fish before I smoke or can.. 1.5 grams per pound of cure#1.. 9 grams Kosher salt and 9 grams of sugar per pound... Mix the above, add to the fish at 20 grams per pound, uniformly distributed, and refrigerate for 48 hours before processing.... The above meets USDA recommendations...

 

[thirdeye]

Yes! Do you live in WY? We love Green River and were looking at moving there, but alas, we hate the cold. I get the same site every year at the CG, get up early and book six months in advance. This year I have two sites, a couple of friends will be there, along with another old bud who likes the RV park and brings another boat. RAY

Yep, but I live in the center of the state. Probably haven't fished Flaming Gorge 10 times in my whole life, but the quality of fishing is outstanding. Same with the tailwaters below the dam in Utah which we called the A section. An interesting day trip (I don't think there is site camping) would be to High Savory reservoir which is about 200 miles East of Flaming Gorge on the edge of the Medicine Bow Forest. Among other species of trout, the reservoir also has Tiger trout..., so the chance of catching a state record exists.

 

[sawhorseray]

Ray, morning.... I just posted this on a Facebook canning thread....

It is common for fish to carry botulism bacteria... It washes into the lakes, rivers and ocean from the soil... It harbors in the gut and gills... Do NOT store salmon without gutting and gilling it first... I add cure#1 to all fish before I smoke or can.. 1.5 grams per pound of cure#1.. 9 grams Kosher salt and 9 grams of sugar per pound... Mix the above, add to the fish at 20 grams per pound, uniformly distributed, and refrigerate for 48 hours before processing.... The above meets USDA recommendations...

Thanks Dave. I was hoping to hear from you yesterday, I have great respect for your knowledge and recommendations when it comes to food safety. I smoked a little fillet without curing it for 90 minutes yesterday, made two pints which are marked and being canned right now. I'm going to toss them both, I'd rather be a little safe than a lot sorry. Thanks again! RAY

 

[daveomak]

If you used a "Pressure Canner" and not a pressure cooker, you will be fine... 11#'s pressure for 100 minutes and do NOT hurry the cool down time, botulism spores will be done in......
From what I have seen.... There are NO electric pressure cookers that are safe for canning foods... regardless of what they say...

 

[thirdeye]

Ray, morning.... I just posted this on a Facebook canning thread....

It is common for fish to carry botulism bacteria... It washes into the lakes, rivers and ocean from the soil... It harbors in the gut and gills... Do NOT store salmon without gutting and gilling it first... I add cure#1 to all fish before I smoke or can.. 1.5 grams per pound of cure#1.. 9 grams Kosher salt and 9 grams of sugar per pound... Mix the above, add to the fish at 20 grams per pound, uniformly distributed, and refrigerate for 48 hours before processing.... The above meets USDA recommendations...

Dave, does the Cure #1 need the 48 hours to fully penetrate the fillet? I use a salt/sugar/spice dry cure on my 'skin-on' fillets of trout, steelhead and salmon... but I cure from one side only, and my cure time is 7 hours at the longest, and most of my fish is hot smoked. Is that too short of a cure time for the Cure #1 to have an effect?

Thanks Dave. I was hoping to hear from you yesterday, I have great respect for your knowledge and recommendations when it comes to food safety. I smoked a little fillet without curing it for 90 minutes yesterday, made two pints which are marked and being canned right now. I'm going to toss them both, I'd rather be a little safe than a lot sorry. Thanks again! RAY

Some canner manufacturers recommend a minimum number of jars per batch to insure uniform heating of the jars containing food. However, many folks will put jars filled with water in the canner to make up for this. I think you should be fine, and if you want to follow the exact government guidelines, process for 110 minutes instead of 100 minutes and do a natural release. Confirm your elevation for processing pressure with a gauge or weight.

Now, if you are still in doubt as to the reliability of your canning technique (to make a shelf stable product), just allow your jars to cool naturally, and refrigerate them eating them in a day or two. You would do the same if you had a jar that did not seal during processing. Look at it this way, you have essentially pressure cooked your fish in a jar.

If you used a "Pressure Canner" and not a pressure cooker, you will be fine... 11#'s pressure for 100 minutes and do NOT hurry the cool down time, botulism spores will be done in......
From what I have seen.... There are NO electric pressure cookers that are safe for canning foods... regardless of what they say...

The 11# is good up to 2000' elevation. I have to process at 13# since I live at 5400' elevation.

 

[sawhorseray]

Great, thanks Dave! I have a All American 21 pressure canner and went to 15 for 100 minutes, my elevation is 1237'. I just shut everything down and popped the lid, six pints bubbling away in there. It's about 50º and I'm just going to let things sit for a half hour, then take the jars out. Thanks again, you are my food safety guru! RAY

 

[sawhorseray]

The instructions that came with the canner said to use #15 for elevations over 1000', #10 for under that. I believe it's all good to go. Six pints on the bottom was a perfect fit. Thanks Dave! RAY

 

[thirdeye]

Your manual should have two charts. One chart is for a fixed weight (which can be a single, or an adjustable weight).... the second chart is for pressure gauge, and it breaks down elevation into 2000' ranges. My canner has both a gauge and a jiggle weight (5#, 10#, and 15#) however I modified mine to jiggle at 14# since my elevation requires 13# of pressure. Overshooting your processing time, or cooking some things at too high of a pressure can result in a drier product, so be mindful of that. When you sample your first couple of jars, take note of the seasoning and the moistness. To each jar, I add a jalapeno ring or two, or some red onion, black pepper, and seasonings. I addition I add a little water and oil. Olive oil will impart some flavor, vegetable oil does not.