calculating nitrate ...before or after adding fat?

[meatloaf]

just weighing up my meat for some sausage and I have some lard packaged separately. Should I include the meat + fat total in my nitrate calculations or exclude it and just weigh out the meat and calculate nitrate based on that, and then put the fat in after?
thanks :)

 

[smokerjim]

I think you would weigh the fat also then calculate.

 

[voyager 663rd]

Meat plus fat= the amount to be used to determine how much cure to add.

so: 4 lb "meat" plus 1 lb fat = 5 pounds x "required cure per pound" or 5 x1.42 = 7.1 gm of cure (note: 1.42gm will vary depending on what final end product is desired.

Cure #1 & 2 Volume to Weight per Pound of Meat Chart

This is of value. CURE Volume to Weight Chart in Ounces and Grams for the weight of meat in Pounds...JJ NOTE: The Weight in Grams may vary, a few tenths from what others typically use and post. But this is due to the OP's, Susan Minor, rounding. The Weights are Safe and within USDA Guidelines...

www.smokingmeatforums.com

 

[SmokinEdge]

You are fine either way. However technically if the meat and fat are separate then cure should be measured for meat only. The salt and spices can be measured for the whole weight meat+fat.

 

[PolishDeli]

Assuming you're smoking and not fermenting? In that case, it doesn't matter because your nitrate concentration should be 0.

For determining you nitrite concentration, SmokinEdge is correct. That is because the fat contains no myoglobin, and therefore does not "consume" the cure. But in practice though, it won't matter if you calc for just meat or for meat+fat.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Assuming you're smoking and not fermenting? In that case, it doesn't matter because your nitrate concentration should be 0.

For determining you nitrite concentration, SmokinEdge is correct. That is because the fat contains no myoglobin, and therefore does not "consume" the cure. But in practice though, it won't matter if you calc for just meat or for meat+fat.

Exactly true.

 

[voyager 663rd]

You are fine either way. However technically if the meat and fat are separate then cure should be measured for meat only. The salt and spices can be measured for the whole weight meat+fat.

By this rationale:

if you have 5lb of butt (20% fat for all intents and purposes), your nitrite addition should be calculated at 4lb otherwise it will be too high--not deadly high but still high--when compared to say 5 lb of loin. Will it not??

 

[SmokinEdge]

By this rationale:

if you have 5lb of butt (20% fat for all intents and purposes), your nitrite addition should be calculated at 4lb otherwise it will be too high--not deadly high but still high--when compared to say 5 lb of loin. Will it not??

Yes high but still acceptable. In technical speak 156ppm nitrite is max in commuted meats such sausage that’s not semi-dried or dried (those can go higher).

So really all we are talking about here is weather or not to include fat weight. Fat is generally 20-30% of total weight. It’s still ok to figure total weight into the .25% for cure #1 while over all it’s a little high it’s not dangerous. It can still be a consideration though and you can throttle back. Nitrite works in a range, you don’t have to hit it exactly but stay in with that .25% for most things and you will end up fine.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Yes high but still acceptable. In technical speak 156ppm nitrite is max in commuted meats such sausage that’s not semi-dried or dried (those can go higher).

So really all we are talking about here is weather or not to include fat weight. Fat is generally 20-30% of total weight. It’s still ok to figure total weight into the .25% for cure #1 while over all it’s a little high it’s not dangerous. It can still be a consideration though and you can throttle back. Nitrite works in a range, you don’t have to hit it exactly but stay in with that .25% for most things and you will end up fine.

When I make emulsified sausage I keep lean meat separate from fat. Cure #1 is always calculated on the meat only. Salt and spices are calculated on the whole weight and mixed into the meat first then fat added at the end. This is the correct way to do it. But lots of folks just use pork butt grind and it’s fine and really no way to separate the fat effectively. It all works in the end.

 

[PolishDeli]

voyager 663rd

If you calculate for a 156 ppm cure concentration, but you are off by 20% because of fat content which you did not account for, your cure concentration will be 195 ppm. That is still below the max allowed in-going cure amount for hams as per the USDA (it exceeds the regulatory limit for Comminuted Products, but you are still well within safety limits).

Achieving dangerously high concentrations of NaNO2 in home made sausages is actually very difficult, because
(1) the amount of salt that cure#1 contains would results in a sausage too salty to eat
(2) NaNO2 reacts with myoglobin - so between curing and cooking, most of the NaNO2 would convert into different chemicals anyway.

 

[SmokinEdge]

voyager 663rd

If you calculate for a 156 ppm cure concentration, but you are off by 20% because of fat content which you did not account for, your cure concentration will be 195 ppm. That is still below the max allowed in-going cure amount for hams as per the USDA (it exceeds the regulatory limit for Comminuted Products, but you are still well within safety limits).

Achieving dangerously high concentrations of NaNO2 in home made sausages is actually very difficult, because
(1) the amount of salt that cure#1 contains would results in a sausage too salty to eat
(2) NaNO2 reacts with myoglobin - so between curing and cooking, most of the NaNO2 would convert into different chemicals anyway.

From the book Home Production of Quality Meats and Sausages “ page #50 by Stanley Marianski:

How Much Nitrite Is Dangerous?

“According to the report prepared in 1972 for the U.S Food and Drug Administration (FDA) by Battele-Columbus Laboratories and Department of Commerce, Springfield, VA 22151— The fatal dose of Sodium Nitrite is in the range of 22 to 23 milligrams per kilogram of body weight. A 156 Lb adult (71 Kg) would have to consume 14.3 pounds (6.5 Kg) of cured meat containing 200 ppm of sodium nitrite at one time. Taking into consideration that nitrite is rapidly converted to nitric oxide during the curing process, the 14.3 pound amount will have to be doubled or even tripled. The equivalent amount of pure sodium nitrite consumed will be 1.3g. One gram (1 ppm) of PURE sodium nitrite is generally accepted as life threatening dose.

As nitrite is mixed with large amounts of salt, it would be impossible to swallow it at least from a culinary standpoint “.