Boiling water?

[jp61]

 
steam IS visible   WATER VAPOR IS NOT

I'd bet, that the guy who made local news years ago for getting his hand cut off by high pressure steam while looking for a leak would disagree with your statements. 

 

[dcarch]

I didn't say it was off target, I said I didn't see any value to it. I can appreciate, and have read with interest in the past, a discussion about using or not using a water pan. But a discussion of the science of boiling water is of no interest.

Anyway, should have just gone on to another thread and kept my mouth shut. Just because it's of no value to me, doesn't mean it is of no interest to everyone. I appoligise for the inappropriate comment.

No need to apologize. We are all here to exchange, share and learn.

After studying water's very strange thermal behaviors, that led me to design and built my ultra sonic humidifier for my smoker. I can control humidity independently of temperature.

dcarch

 

[jlcnuke]

 
steam is water in transition from liquid to vapor and is  visible ..... 

 
Well, you are free to disagree with WIKI, and here is another you can disagree with, and there are lots more:

"When you boil water it turns into gas. It's really water gas but it's usually called steam. Water gas (steam) is actually invisible just like a lot of other gases. The visible vapour you can see is really lots of very small water droplets that are condensing out of the steam as it cools."

dcarch

/begin nerd talk

Definitions of steam include both pure water vapor as wells as water vapor mixed with liquid water droplets (feel free to google "steam definition" if you don't believe me though..). The latter is visible, the former is not. While from an engineering or industrial standpoint the former definition is correct and preferred, for "layman" use the latter is the common understanding as most people encounter "boiling water steam" or "shower steam" etc and tend not to encounter super-heated steam. The liquid water droplets (either carryover or condensed water vapor) is what makes steam visible as gaseous water vapor doesn't have sufficient density to be visible in a standard environment.

/end nerd talk

 

[cats49er]

How many of ya'll went to M.I.T.?  I don't think I'll use a water pan if it has to be this technical.  lol

 

[cal1956]

lol,,,haha

 

[dcarch]

 
How many of ya'll went to M.I.T.?  I don't think I'll use a water pan if it has to be this technical.  lol

It is actually very simple to figure out what do you gain if you keep i gallon of water in you smoker. Information is simple to get, and math is simple to figure out.

With one gallon of water in your smoker: 

If your objective is to keep your interior temperature above 212F, the water will fight your attempts because water does not want you to go above 212F. When you see your gallon of water has been boiled away, you would have wasted about 7800 BTUs of heat to sustain temperature

If you left your smoker door open too long and temperature drops below 212F, the water will help you to recover by giving you only 16 BTU for every degree F increase, until the temperature gets to 212F, then the water will fight you to get any higher.

Meanwhile your 1,800 watt heater can give you 6,120 BTUs/hour.

It is a thousand times more complicated to come up with the best rub for your ribs.

dcarch

 

[cal1956]

only took 3 tries to get my rub right ........been using it for over 30 years

 

[venture]

I choose not to partake in much of the discussion here.

In an offset smoker, a small loaf pan of water next to the entrance of the firebox into the pit can be used to partially regulate heat spikes in the pit.  Also, some people like a LITTLE extra moisture in the pit.

As to boiling water, this chart might be helpful:

http://whatscookingamerica.net/boilpoint.htm

Good luck and good smoking.

 

[cedar eater]

I only put four cups of water in my smoker. I can't imagine why someone would use more. I put it in a large, flat, shallow pan to maximize the pan/water surface area and the air/water surface area. This heats the water faster and releases heat from the water faster. The water pan is a my drip pan and I don't use a PID controller, but I do use infinite switches (similar to a dimmer switch). I set the switch to just a little higher than I think will be necessary. This brings the temperature up slower, while the smoke is doing its thing.

 

[dcarch]

 
---------------------

As to boiling water, this chart might be helpful:

http://whatscookingamerica.net/boilpoint.htm

Good luck and good smoking.

There are statements in that article that is not true.

For instance, adding things in water does not always increase volume.  Try adding sugar or salt, you will see that it may not increase volume. (until it can't dissolve anymore)

Water! water! water! World's most common yet strange substance. So much to learn, especially if you are into cooking.

dcarch

 

[cal1956]

For instance, adding things in water does not always increase volume.  Try adding sugar or salt, you will see that it may not increase volume. (until it can't dissolve anymore

it does so increase volume !!!! the amount might be small but the volume in the container the water in HAS to increase , this is true even if you dissolve oxygen in the water

anytime something ( anything)  is added the volume MUST increase

 

[dcarch]

 
For instance, adding things in water does not always increase volume.  Try adding sugar or salt, you will see that it may not increase volume. (until it can't dissolve anymore

it does so increase volume !!!! the amount might be small but the volume in the container the water in HAS to increase , this is true even if you dissolve oxygen in the water

anytime something ( anything)  is added the volume MUST increase

The best explanation:

"Volumes don't always add. If you had a barrel of BBs and a barrel of baseballs would you get two barrels full of stuff if you poured the BBs into the baseballs? Of course not since the BBs could fit in between the baseballs. "

As long as you don't exceed the solubility of water (saturation) you will find the volume of water remain the same. Not very logical, but that's chemistry, chem mystery. :-)

However, I have to point out this, it is possible that water volume may increase very slightly, that's another crazy personality of water.

When you add salt in water, temperature drops (making ice cream the old way). Everything else shrinks when cooled, except water. That's why ice is lighter than liquid water.

As I said, water is crazy. 

dcarch

 

[atomicsmoke]

Why would you dump back bacon or baby back ribs in a barrel of baseballs?

 

[dcarch]

Why would you dump back bacon or baby back ribs in a barrel of baseballs?

Because according to rules,  a spitball is illegal, and no other foreign substance is allowed on the baseball.

There is no rule against bacon grease, and bacon is not foreign, it is made in the USA. 

dcarch

 

[atomicsmoke]

Because according to rules,  a spitball is illegal, and no other foreign substance is allowed on the baseball.

There is no rule against bacon grease, and bacon is not foreign, it is made in the USA. 

:biggrin:
dcarch

Makes sense now.

 

[cedar eater]

it does so increase volume !!!! the amount might be small but the volume in the container the water in HAS to increase , this is true even if you dissolve oxygen in the water
anytime something ( anything)  is added the volume MUST increase

It depends on how much you increase the density of the resultant liquid. Adding sugar will increase the density. Sugar saturated water is heavier than pure water. Basically the sugar molecules can get closer together when they are dissolved in water than when they are in dry crystal form, and the water molecules can get closer together in the presence of sugar than they are in pure distilled water . If you can inspire the molecules to get closer together, you can increase the density without increasing the volume. The sugar decreases the amount that water molecules repel each other. Adding salt will decrease the density of the resultant liquid, but the volume will still be less than the combined volumes of the water and the dry salt for two reasons. You've removed the air between the salt crystals and the salt molecules are not aligning (repelling each other) as they were in the dry salt crystals.

 

[dcarch]

Speaking of water is strange and salt in water:

You see here threads/posts all the time about the danger of working with electricity near water. 

The fact is, water is a good electric insulator. Water is a very poor electrical conductor. It is the salt or other impurities in water that make water conductive.

dcarch

 

[daveomak]

:yeahthat:

 

[phatbac]

For my water pan in my WSM i just cover it in foil with an air pocket for a heat shield and i maintain good temps and all i see is thin blue smoke!

Happy Smoking ( not steaming whether you can see it or not)

phatbac (Aaron)

 

[cal1956]

 
Speaking of water is strange and salt in water:

You see here threads/posts all the time about the danger of working with electricity near water. 

The fact is, water is a good electric insulator. Water is a very poor electrical conductor. It is the salt or other impurities in water that make water conductive.

dcarch

i'll just be damned ...for the  1st time  I agree with what you said  !!!!