Another MES 30 Gen 2 question

[petehalsted]

I picked up a Craig's list deal on a 20078715 30" MES today. This is the "late" model Generation 2 it has the vent on the Top Left Rear and the replaceable controller etc. But not the Gen 2.5 control.

It does have a sloping drip pan and small water bowl of the Gen 2. Which I have read all the post and seems that is the only "Gen 2 Issue" remaining with this model.

I was wondering if anyone has tried a Gen 2.5 Split level bowl or a Gen 1 bowl in the unit? Would it fit and solve the heat buildup issue?

I am sure I can find/modify something else, but if the Gen 2.5 split level bowl will fit, I got this cheap enough to make it worth purchasing.

I will be ordering my AMNPS tomorrow. That give me a few days to get it cleaned up and dialed in.

We travel full-time in an RV, which is why I went with the 30 instead of the 40.

I have been using my Vector Smoke Hollow portable grill/smoker (with lots of tweaks and mods). I can do a decent job with it and will continue to use it for searing, Grilling, Flat Bread Pizzas, etc. I managed 4 racks of St. Louis style ribs on it this summer, with some creative modifications to a rib rack, and a couple of briskets for Thanksgiving. But trying to maintain a consistent 225 in it makes you feel like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest!

 

[dr k]

A disposable aluminum pan on the bottom rack should work after removing the slant pan and water pan.
-Kurt

 

[petehalsted]

I got turned on to using Slate Tiles for Grilling last year and keep a few with me in the RV. After taking a close look at everything I ended up using some of them as you can see below. On the left side was a bracket and above it were 2 unused screws. I moved the bracket up to those holes, I had to drill a extra hole in the bracket because the holes are not the exact same width as the original holes. On the right side, the same 2 unused screws, I made brackets using some small L brackets for that side, but really the majority of the slate rest on the edge of the mount for the chip chute. Slate cuts very easily with an Angle grinders with a tile cutting wheel. I may live in an RV, but I am fairly well equipped tool wise LOL.

I am waiting for a 2nd air probe so I can see how my temps are balanced now, but this should do a decent job of not only deflecting the heat but also providing some thermal mass to help hold temps for door openings etc. More or less the same concept as putting sand in the water pan.

Just FYI, if anyone is curious. Slate is a natural stone product (don't try this with ceramic tiles etc. as they are treated,etc.) On the grill the slate only last 6 weeks or so, it eventually splits from the extreme temperature variations. But I am hoping that won't be as much of an issue in the smoker since the temps won't be anywhere near as high and the swings won't be as quick and dramatic. If you never heard of Slate grilling do some googling. It is great for anything you want a sear instead of grill marks, it is great for fish. And one of my favorite things to do is flat bread pizza, the slate helps draw moisture from the crust and helps get a great crispy crust, there is a reason brick over pizza is popular! I love it when folks ask whats on the grill and I say Pizza and just watch their confused looks. You do have to be careful with an open grill, sometimes the cracking from heat can be explosive. I find that some slate tiles don't last at all and others hold up well, again its a natural product, so its all about how mother nature created the faults in the stone.

Anyway I will report back once I am able to test my temps and see where they are, and my first smoke. Todd has a AMNPS on its way to me. I also have a Thermoworks Smoke and some extra probes on the way to supplement my existing Thermoworks DOT.

 

[Bearcarver]

A disposable aluminum pan on the bottom rack should work after removing the slant pan and water pan.
-Kurt

Yup---This is what I've been saying for a couple years.
I have not tried it, but it seems to me that if you:
#1 Remove the slanted drip plate & small water pan.
#2 Put the bottom rack in place.
#3 Put a 9 X 12 Foil pan on the bottom rack.
#4 Put your AMNPS on the right end of the bottom rack & treat it just like a Gen #2.5, which is pull the chip dumper out a few inches for air flow to the AMNPS, and push it in for less air flow.

BTW: A foil pan would be better than a Water Pan, because when it gets real messy, you can throw it away & put a new one in, instead of washing it and recovering it with foil.

Bear

 

[Bearcarver]

I got turned on to using Slate Tiles for Grilling last year and keep a few with me in the RV. After taking a close look at everything I ended up using some of them as you can see below. On the left side was a bracket and above it were 2 unused screws. I moved the bracket up to those holes, I had to drill a extra hole in the bracket because the holes are not the exact same width as the original holes. On the right side, the same 2 unused screws, I made brackets using some small L brackets for that side, but really the majority of the slate rest on the edge of the mount for the chip chute. Slate cuts very easily with an Angle grinders with a tile cutting wheel. I may live in an RV, but I am fairly well equipped tool wise LOL.

I am waiting for a 2nd air probe so I can see how my temps are balanced now, but this should do a decent job of not only deflecting the heat but also providing some thermal mass to help hold temps for door openings etc. More or less the same concept as putting sand in the water pan.

Just FYI, if anyone is curious. Slate is a natural stone product (don't try this with ceramic tiles etc. as they are treated,etc.) On the grill the slate only last 6 weeks or so, it eventually splits from the extreme temperature variations. But I am hoping that won't be as much of an issue in the smoker since the temps won't be anywhere near as high and the swings won't be as quick and dramatic. If you never heard of Slate grilling do some googling. It is great for anything you want a sear instead of grill marks, it is great for fish. And one of my favorite things to do is flat bread pizza, the slate helps draw moisture from the crust and helps get a great crispy crust, there is a reason brick over pizza is popular! I love it when folks ask whats on the grill and I say Pizza and just watch their confused looks. You do have to be careful with an open grill, sometimes the cracking from heat can be explosive. I find that some slate tiles don't last at all and others hold up well, again its a natural product, so its all about how mother nature created the faults in the stone.

Anyway I will report back once I am able to test my temps and see where they are, and my first smoke. Todd has a AMNPS on its way to me. I also have a Thermoworks Smoke and some extra probes on the way to supplement my existing Thermoworks DOT.
View attachment 347926

I can't tell by the picture, but make sure that plate isn't too big that it would trap the heat below it.

Bear

 

[petehalsted]

Its the same approx depth as the original slanted tray. It goes full distance side to side, which with water bowl so did the original. There is an 1 1/2 - 2 " open in the back, probably closer to 3" in front. I suspect door would be cooler than back by default, so a bit more spacing at the front, might compensate for that.

I did a quick test, letting it run up to 250 and stabilize and used, my radiant temp gauge to check a few spots on it rack. Looked like delta's of maybe 5 degrees different side to side, and about 15 degrees from top to bottom. But really hard to say with radiant gun trying to shot spots quickly once I opened the door. Once I get my other probes and do a true test I will have a better idea. Good news is, if there are issues, all I have to do is left up the slate to take it out and then can try the tray. But I think once the slate gets to temp and everything gets stabilized it will work great, and the slate will help with recovery from door openings.

I will be sure to let you know once I get to do a full test. Hoping everything will be here before the weekend.

 

[Bearcarver]

OK---Great---2" in back & 3" in front should be plenty!!!

Bear

 

[petehalsted]

NAILED IT!

I got my Thermoworks Smoke delivered so between it and the DOT I had plenty of probes to test out the smoker.

I did some test last night on the top 2 shelves and found that there are brief moments during the heating cycle where I can have a 5 degree left to right delta, and a 10 degree front to back delta, but overall thourgh a couple of cylces the temps balance out nicely and average in the same range.

So this morning I tested each shelf with 2 temp probes mounted in the center (front to back) and about 1 inch from the side on each side (Left to Right). Smoker was empty. I set the smoker for 225 and let it initially run for 45 minutes to get through a few cycles and settle down. The I reset my thermometer so the high and low points would reset, and let it run for 30 minutes. Then recorded the max high and min low numbers. Moved down to the next shelf and repeated the steps.

Here are my numbers. Shelf 1 is highest, Shelf 4 lowest and just a couple of inches above the slate.

          (L) Low    (L) High    (R) Low    (R) High
Shelf 1   217        230         215        229
Shelf 2   213        232         212        231
Shelf 3   211        228         212        229
Shelf 4   207        224         207        225

Things that surprised me:

Shelf 4 is the "coolest" shelf, that is the one right above the slate and the heater. Apparently the heat rises and stacks at the top pretty quick. The slate likely acts as a heatsink, and makes it act as more of a radiant heat. I will have to test it with some meat to see if that really holds true. But based on these numbers it would seem I should be able to use all 4 shelves.

The initial overrun is fairly substantial, when the first cycle finally reaches 225 and shuts off, my temps reach between 245-250 before starting to drop again. After the first cycle I didn't see that type of overrun.

The "response time" of the smokers probe is incredibly slow compared to the probes that come with my Thermoworks. When the temps top out on my Thermoworks and start dropping, it took several minutes more before the smoker started dropping. Same things on the rise. Eventually the the smokers temp and the Thermoworks would come in line with each other when the heat was off, it just took a lot longer for the smokers probe to respond. This I guess could be by design to keep it from short cycling. But definitely makes it not trustworthy if you want to know what the temp is. My averages above are around 222 and I had the smoker at 225, so that is pretty close, but at times there was a 10 - 15 degree difference between what the smoker reported and what the Thermoworks reported.

I was hoping the AMNPS was going to be delivered today my the mailman left me down. As soon as it comes in I will be doing a true test smoke with some Chicken halves. But I believe the temp side of the equation is going to be "set it and forget it".

 

[Bearcarver]

Pete,
Sounds like your Temps are pretty decent with that slate the way you have it.

I believe That slower response of the MES is generally because it's attached to the back wall, and all that metal heat sinc effects it, but your 3rd party probe is just in the air on it's own & not touching anything else that could affect it.

I'd say as soon as you get your AMNPS, you're ready for action.
In case you haven't seen it yet, check my link at the bottom of any of my posts for my Step by Steps.
There's about 100 of them & most of them were done on an MES unit.

Bear

 

[petehalsted]

Thanks Bear. I have went through your Step and Steps and there are a few I am definitely going to try soon. Beef Sticks for sure!

Looking forward to doing a batch of Ribs and some brisket in something that I ain't chasing the temp constantly!

 

[Bearcarver]

Thanks Bear. I have went through your Step and Steps and there are a few I am definitely going to try soon. Beef Sticks for sure!

Looking forward to doing a batch of Ribs and some brisket in something that I ain't chasing the temp constantly!

Yup---If your Temps run around what your chart says, you're good to go.
Just put your Thermoworks probe at your main shelf about 2" to 3" from the meat.
That's close enough to measure the heat where the meat is without being too close and measuring the "cold" coming off of your cold meat. Then adjust your MES controls to make your Thermoworks read what you want the smoker temp to be.
Hope that makes sense.

Bear