Alton Brown

[duck killer 1]

I gotta tell ya, every time i read a thread like this it scares me out of trying to cure anything myself! 

 

[venture]

Salt has been used to cure meat for centuries.  I have read that the salt in certain parts of the world contains naturally occurring nitrates.  However, back then the average life expectancy was probably about 35.  For myself and my family, I will err on the side of safety. Besides the nitrate/nitrite gives that purdy red color.  LOL

 

[meateater]

I gotta tell ya, every time i read a thread like this it scares me out of trying to cure anything myself! 

Don't be scared, the cures are laid out in plain english about how much to use from the companies. A good scale and your good to go.  

 

 

[princess]

Saltpeter is likely what you are thinkinof. Many old-old (in fact, almost all of the ones from my extensive family archives) curing recipies use saltpeter to cure meat. Saltpeter is a natural source of potassium nitrate. It can be used to cure meats as well as make fireworks. That "natural" version of saltpter can be ABSOLUTELY DEADLY and so smart modern folk stay the heck away from it.

I prefer to *read* Alton, rather than watch the show (all the "wacky camera angles" give me a headache), but really.. he isn't a scientist. And even if he was, even the best scientists make mistakes.  You cannot afford to play around with botulism.
 

Salt has been used to cure meat for centuries.  I have read that the salt in certain parts of the world contains naturally occurring nitrates.  However, back then the average life expectancy was probably about 35.  For myself and my family, I will err on the side of safety. Besides the nitrate/nitrite gives that purdy red color.  LOL

 

[venture]

Alton Brown is not a food scientist, he is a performer.  A good part of his show will often come from Harold McGee's book, "On Food and Cooking: The Science and Lore of the Kitchen". From what I have read, McGee's book is considered one of the three or four "bibles" in some culinary schools.  I have thumbed through it and it is a very interesting read.  Not a book you want to read from cover to cover.  More like an encyclopedia of food science you would keep on your shelf as a reference volume.  I hope to own a copy soon.

From Wikipedia I find, "The name Peru saltpetre or Chile saltpetre (American Peru saltpeter or Chile saltpeter) refers not to potassium nitrate but to a similar chemical sodium nitrate.

And so we go in the never-ending joys of our pursuits in this wonderful hobby.  LOL

 

[ak1]

...don't make statements that are wrong. 

Bear, what statements did I make that were wrong? As I remember, I didn't make any, I just offered my opinion in my first post in this thread and then asked questions(in subsequent posts), concerning whether it was possible to "cure" bacon in the way that was posted by the OP. 
 

 

[Bearcarver]

Bear, what statements did I make that were wrong? As I remember, I didn't make any, I just offered my opinion in my first post in this thread and then asked questions(in subsequent posts), concerning whether it was possible to "cure" bacon in the way that was posted by the OP. 
 

This will be my LAST reply on this thread.

In my first post, after seeing that Alton Brown didn't "cure" the meat, I said:

Add another one to the list:  (With others that would not follow AB's method)

Brining without real cure for 3 days.

Then cold smoking for 4 to 6 hours.

Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

I used to have more respect for Alton Brown.

Bear

Then you said;

I'd have no problems with it. 

For one, the salt will draw out enough moisture that it will inhibit bacteria growth. Also the honey is so sweet that it will also inhibit bacteria growth(Honey is one of the few foods that will not spoil) Also, since the belly is not pierced there will be no bacterial penetration into the meat and it will also be in the fridge where cold temps will also help in inhibiting any bacterial growth.

And This;

I'd do the same. But I would suggest that one keeps an open mind to other methods of curing, some which have been proven over hundreds of years, long before curing salt & refrigeration was available.

Look at it this way. You're uncomfortable about using a recipe that has been televised on national TV(in a society that is one of the most litigenous on this planet). But you're comfortable adding a product that is a known human toxin to your food. And then you're going to smoke it over wood or charcoal which emits carbon monoxide/carbon dioxide, and particulates(the smoke) which coat the food that you (and me) are eating.

Saying "I have no problems with it" is not asking a question. It is saying you agree---you don't need nitrites/nitrates to cure meat. Salt and honey will do the job just fine.

Then you say to keep an open mind to methods of "curing". This is not asking a question. This is saying you can cure meat without "cure", and it's been proven for hundreds of years. Nobody on this forum is going to want to go through what they did before real "cures" were used. And neither did Alton Brown. He salted meat for only 3 days---Then cold smoked it for 4 to 6 hours! That is not a method of "curing"---That is just plain stupid!!!

From there on most of your comments were basically saying how much more dangerous it is to use nitrites/nitrates, than it is to listen to Alton Brown, when he makes "Salted Pork" and calls it "Bacon".

Since you say you want to learn how to "cure", ask questions. If you don't like the answer, ignore it & ask others the same question. When someone gives you an answer, don't go on & on about how & why their answer was wrong, because you read the definition of "curing" in the dictionary, and 100 years ago they did this or that. Dictionaries are for spelling, pronunciation, and brief definitions (among other things). Dictionaries do not tell us how to cure & smoke meat. And what they did 100 years ago had nothing to do with the ignorant thing Alton Brown did.

Amen---Done---Fini---THE END !

Bearcarver

 

[ak1]

PM sent , Bear.
 

This will be my LAST reply on this thread.

In my first post, after seeing that Alton Brown didn't "cure" the meat, I said:

Add another one to the list:  (With others that would not follow AB's method)

Brining without real cure for 3 days.

Then cold smoking for 4 to 6 hours.

Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

I used to have more respect for Alton Brown.

Bear

Then you said;

I'd have no problems with it. 

For one, the salt will draw out enough moisture that it will inhibit bacteria growth. Also the honey is so sweet that it will also inhibit bacteria growth(Honey is one of the few foods that will not spoil) Also, since the belly is not pierced there will be no bacterial penetration into the meat and it will also be in the fridge where cold temps will also help in inhibiting any bacterial growth.

And This;

I'd do the same. But I would suggest that one keeps an open mind to other methods of curing, some which have been proven over hundreds of years, long before curing salt & refrigeration was available.

Look at it this way. You're uncomfortable about using a recipe that has been televised on national TV(in a society that is one of the most litigenous on this planet). But you're comfortable adding a product that is a known human toxin to your food. And then you're going to smoke it over wood or charcoal which emits carbon monoxide/carbon dioxide, and particulates(the smoke) which coat the food that you (and me) are eating.

Saying "I have no problems with it" is not asking a question. It is saying you agree---you don't need nitrites/nitrates to cure meat. Salt and honey will do the job just fine.

Then you say to keep an open mind to methods of "curing". This is not asking a question. This is saying you can cure meat without "cure", and it's been proven for hundreds of years. Nobody on this forum is going to want to go through what they did before real "cures" were used. And neither did Alton Brown. He salted meat for only 3 days---Then cold smoked it for 4 to 6 hours! That is not a method of "curing"---That is just plain stupid!!!

From there on most of your comments were basically saying how much more dangerous it is to use nitrites/nitrates, than it is to listen to Alton Brown, when he makes "Salted Pork" and calls it "Bacon".

Since you say you want to learn how to "cure", ask questions. If you don't like the answer, ignore it & ask others the same question. When someone gives you an answer, don't go on & on about how & why their answer was wrong, because you read the definition of "curing" in the dictionary, and 100 years ago they did this or that. Dictionaries are for spelling, pronunciation, and brief definitions (among other things). Dictionaries do not tell us how to cure & smoke meat. And what they did 100 years ago had nothing to do with the ignorant thing Alton Brown did.

Amen---Done---Fini---THE END !

Bearcarver

 

[alelover]

Man. I think I'll just get my bacon the old fashioned way.

At the store. :)

 

[Bearcarver]

Man. I think I'll just get my bacon the old fashioned way.

At the store. :)

alelover,

Don't do that. You'll never know what you're missing.

It's really not hard to make your own bacon.

Just pay attention to any one of the hundreds of guys & gals on this forum who know what they're doing.

The only problem is once you have your own home cured & smoked Bacon, you'll never buy it in the store again.

Bearcarver

 

[scarbelly]

alelover,

Don't do that. You'll never know what you're missing.

It's really not hard to make your own bacon.

Just pay attention to any one of the hundreds of guys & gals on this forum who know what they're doing.

The only problem is once you have your own home cured & smoked Bacon, you'll never buy it in the store again.

Bearcarver

Bear is right - curing bacon is not difficult if you follow the safety guidelines. There are prepackaged cures with different flavors or you can make your own flavors and use a cure like Prague or Tenderquick. I have 4 pieces  in cure right now and should be able to smoke it on the weekend  - Go look at the pork section and find Bacon and look at how easy it is

Once you try it you are hooked  
 

 

[meateater]

I won't buy store bacon again and Ive only done this twice. Done some buckboard and some canadian and they were outstanding. Cant wait to try my hand at some sausage making.

 

[scarbelly]

I won't buy store bacon again and Ive only done this twice. Done some buckboard and some canadian and they were outstanding. Cant wait to try my hand at some sausage making.

Here are a couple of links for you to look at - no need for casings in the beginning - we went months without a stuffer and loved the sausage

http://www.lets-make-sausage.com/index.html

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-recipes.htm

http://thespicysausage.com/index.html

These will at least give you some ideas and a start - sausage is easy and remember - if you cook it or chill it right away and cook it within a day or two you do not need a cure - just dont cold smoke it so you are safe  

 

 

[meateater]

Here are a couple of links for you to look at - no need for casings in the beginning - we went months without a stuffer and loved the sausage

http://www.lets-make-sausage.com/index.html

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-recipes.htm

http://thespicysausage.com/index.html

These will at least give you some ideas and a start - sausage is easy and remember - if you cook it or chill it right away and cook it within a day or two you do not need a cure - just dont cold smoke it so you are safe  

 

Thanks for the links, got them bookmarked.

 

 

[ak1]

Man. I think I'll just get my bacon the old fashioned way.

At the store. :)

Don't do that.

As others have said, once you've done it, you'll never go back to store bought.
 

 

[wildflower]

Don't do that.

As others have said, once you've done it, you'll never go back to store bought.
 

not so true, store bought is better than my ex-wife!!!!   

 

[alelover]

I totally see your point. But I already make sausage and brats and brew my own beer and grow a bunch of tomatoes and now I am smoking meat. And I'm trying to finish my kitchen remodel. Maybe someday. :)

 

[ak1]

So, I've made a batch of bacon following Altons recipe. Worked fine. Only thing is, it doesn't look nice 
& pink like commercial bacon, or bacon done using a curing salt. It has a slightly greyer look too it when sliced because of the lack of nitrate/nitrite, but it was fine overall. I tried some yesterday and I was good with it, so this morning my wife and sons had some, and they were OK. In the end, I'm good withe the procedure.Based on my experience it works. Of course other's may disagree, and in the end everyone must make they're own decision whether they are comfortable or not following this recipe.

 

[Bearcarver]

For others who don't know much about curing & smoking Bacon.

It is not safe to cold smoke any meat without using a real cure (nitrite/nitrate).

Salt is not a cure to be used before cold smoking!

You could do it & maybe not get sick or worse, but that doesn't mean it is safe. That would mean you were lucky this time. Please do not do this. Find out the proper way to do these things from many reputable curing & smoking books, web sites from State Universities, or some of the guys on this forum who have been doing these things for a long time (they can direct you with links).

Bearcarver

 

[beer-b-q]

So, I've made a batch of bacon following Altons recipe. Worked fine. Only thing is, it doesn't look nice 
& pink like commercial bacon, or bacon done using a curing salt. It has a slightly greyer look too it when sliced because of the lack of nitrate/nitrite, but it was fine overall. I tried some yesterday and I was good with it, so this morning my wife and sons had some, and they were OK. In the end, I'm good withe the procedure.Based on my experience it works. Of course other's may disagree, and in the end everyone must make they're own decision whether they are comfortable or not following this recipe.

I am sure that now that you have watched the Show and Alton Brown read the show's Script that the shows producer handed him, you are both experts in curing meat and making bacon.

What you have is smoked salted pork NOT BACON which is why it is gray instead of pink... It is also NOT CURED.

This is from the University of Minnesota Extension Service THEY ARE EXPERTS. 

For some reason every time a bunch of new members join this type of topic keeps rearing it's ugly head.

Here are a few posts by members who know what they are talking about that all of the people wanting to get into curing bacon, ham and making jerky should read.

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets/Safe_Food_Handling_Fact_Sheets/index.asp

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/69383/brining-vs-curing#post_227325

http://prochefblog.com/public_pics/foodcode2009/2009foodcode.pdf

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/forum/thread/87144/good-info

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/wiki/usda-safe-food-handling

Curing and Smoking Hams and Bacon. There are numerous ways to cure and smoke hams and bacon. Salt may be used alone, with sugar, or with sugar and nitrite. The last method, sometimes referred to as "sugar cure," uses dry ingredients, liquid ingredients, and combinations of both.

The dry sugar cure is safest if you have no refrigerated curing room or equipment for brine curing. Make up the curing ingredients as follows:

8 lbs salt

3 lbs cane sugar

3 oz sodium nitrate

1/2 oz sodium nitrite (or a total of 4 oz nitrate if no nitrite available). Remember, excess nitrite is toxic.

Use 1 oz of cure per 1 lb of pork (for heavy hams weighing more than 20 lbs, use 1-1/2 oz cure per 1 lb of ham). Hams should be rubbed three separate times at three to five day intervals. Bacon should have one thorough rubbing with a light sprinkling over the flesh side after rubbing. Picnics and butts should have two rubbings at three to five day intervals. Place the rubbed meats in boxes, on shelves, on wooden tables to cure but not in tight boxes or barrels where they rest in their own brine. Do not use cardboard or galvanized containers. The length of curing should approximate seven days per inch of thickness. For example, if the ham weighs approximately 12 to 15 lbs and is approximately 5 inches thick through the thickest part, this ham should be cured 7 x 5 = 35 days. If a bacon is 2 inches thick, it should be cured for 7 x 2 = 14 days. It is advisable to rub some of the curing salt into the aitch bone joint and hock end of ham to guard against bone sour. It is all right to leave the product in cure longer than the recommended time since the saltiness does not increase. Dry curing should be done in a cool place to reduce the risk of spoilage.

Since bacon has only a one to two month freezer life because of its salt content, it may be advisable to cure one slab of bacon at a time. The uncured belly can be frozen until curing.

There are several formulas for the "sweet pickle cure" for home processing of ham, bacon, and shoulder. The reader is urged to obtain the publication, "The Meat We Eat," listed at the end of this fact sheet to obtain detailed instructions on sweet pickle curing.