About to do a small Davomak ham, do not want to use veg stock

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SherryT

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Original poster
Dec 23, 2017
891
1,137
Crawford AL
I have a boneless pork shoulder (2.85lbs) I wish to cure as ham and to test Davomak's injection method, but I do NOT wish to use veg stock (never found a brand of commercial stock of any kind I like), so I'll use water instead of stock in this initial test.

My question (and yes, I have one!) is this...if I were to add spices to the water (say, maybe a TBSP of pickling spice), bring to a boil, steep, cool, STRAIN, and THEN add the remaining ingredients for injection, would that work or would I be ruining a perfectly good piece of meat?

My gut tells me it'll be fine, but just making sure.

Thanks!

BTW, I didn't know Dave had passed and was sad to hear it.

RIP Dave.
 
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You can absolutely do what you want here. Just don’t add cure to the boil, do that after cooling, and add the phosphate before any sugar but still while the brine is gently warm, stir it in and don’t let it set, it will clump. I’d be happy to help you along If you need it. The injection method is how I make all of my hams.
 
Sounds like a good plan to me. You will like Dave's injection method. I use it a lot. I have just used plan water cause you will season the meat before cooking/ smoking any way
 
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You can absolutely do what you want here. Just don’t add cure to the boil, do that after cooling, and add the phosphate before any sugar but still while the brine is gently warm, stir it in and don’t let it set, it will clump. I’d be happy to help you along If you need it. The injection method is how I make all of my hams.


Sounds like a good plan to me. You will like Dave's injection method. I use it a lot. I have just used plan water cause you will season the meat before cooking/ smoking any way

Thanks to both of you!

On this one, I'll omit the spices because I'm just testing out the method (and the addition of STPP), but if it turns like like I think it will, it's on for the next one!
 
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His injection is very easy to make your own. Add what ever but use the main ingredients .
 
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Thanks to both of you!

On this one, I'll omit the spices because I'm just testing out the method (and the addition of STPP), but if it turns like like I think it will, it's on for the next one!
Will be a delicious ham. Most all commercial ham and bacon are made with the 10% pump method. Cool thing here is we can change up spices and control flavors. It’s an excellent process for the home producer for thicker cuts like ham. I really don’t recommend this process for bacon though.
 
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You're covered above . Mix the injection in the order Dave listed for the base ingredients . I personally don't heat my brines . I put it in a mason jar and shake it up . If you want to heat it that works too .
Dave told me do it in this order , so I do it in that order . Lol .
1. Phosphates
2. Sugar
3. Salt
4. Cure .
 
I've used his method to a 'T', until I could no longer find Kitchen Basics veg. broth. I've since switched over to better than bouillon veg. broth since I couldn't find one in a carton that was even comparable.

You will be fine with water or whatever spices you happen to like.

And yes, Dave's loss is a big one. His method is the only way I like ham. To me, everything else is a bland salt lick.
 
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My question (and yes, I have one!) is this...if I were to add spices to the water (say, maybe a TBSP of pickling spice), bring to a boil, steep, cool, STRAIN, and THEN add the remaining ingredients for injection, would that work or would I be ruining a perfectly good piece of meat?
This will work. I've made various forms of Porkstrami over the years (loosely based on my corned beef brine) and I'm such a huge fan of the daveomak injectable curing brine... I wanted to experiment by using his method, but changing up the ingredients with pastrami spices. I did visit with Dave and he offered suggestions. Here is the link you might find useful.
Post #8 gets down to all the particulars. You can subtract from the ingredients if you see fit.

 
I've used his method to a 'T', until I could no longer find Kitchen Basics veg. broth. I've since switched over to better than bouillon veg. broth since I couldn't find one in a carton that was even comparable.

You will be fine with water or whatever spices you happen to like.

And yes, Dave's loss is a big one. His method is the only way I like ham. To me, everything else is a bland salt lick.
I also use this.
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Yeah I had to order that broth and did not like it. Like said use something else.
If the commercial broths don't do it for you guys, making a vegetable broth from scratch is pretty easy. I remember making one years back, that was either Alton Brown's or Emeril Lagasse's recipe.
 
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I hadn't seen that one when I was looking to replace Kitchen Basics. It took a bit of tweaking to account for the salt in the broth and the amount of salt used in the cure in order for it to come out right for my family.

From what I could figure, regular Better than Bouillon Vegetable Stock is 1.75g of salt per-tsp and 1tsp of BTB makes 250 ml broth.

If I need 500ml broth, I mix up 500 ml broth, then take the equivalent of 3.5g of salt out of the recipe. Of course we're rarely working in whole numbers so to get a rough approximate, I calculate the amount of broth needed for the brine, then I mix enough BTB broth to equal the next whole number. Once mixed, I measure out required amount for the ham you're going to cure and discard the rest.

For example, if I need 432 ml of broth, I'd round up and mix 500 ml (2 tsp BTB = 3.5g salt). Then measure out required amount for the brine (432 ml) and discard rest. Then when I'm measuring out the salt, I take 3.5g salt out of the kosher salt. You could go deeper into the math and figure out the exact salt content to account for, but this seems to work for my family.
 
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I hadn't seen that one when I was looking to replace Kitchen Basics. It took a bit of tweaking to account for the salt in the broth and the amount of salt used in the cure in order for it to come out right for my family.

From what I could figure, regular Better than Bouillon Vegetable Stock is 1.75g of salt per-tsp and 1tsp of BTB makes 250 ml broth.

If I need 500ml broth, I mix up 500 ml broth, then take the equivalent of 3.5g of salt out of the recipe. Of course we're rarely working in whole numbers so to get a rough approximate, I calculate the amount of broth needed for the brine, then I mix enough BTB broth to equal the next whole number. Once mixed, I measure out required amount for the ham you're going to cure and discard the rest.

For example, if I need 432 ml of broth, I'd round up and mix 500 ml (2 tsp BTB = 3.5g salt). Then measure out required amount for the brine (432 ml) and discard rest. Then when I'm measuring out the salt, I take 3.5g salt out of the kosher salt. You could go deeper into the math and figure out the exact salt content to account for, but this seems to work for my family.
Just to be clear, Dave’s recipe used NO SALT Kitchen Basics veg broth. This choice was on purpose to allow you do control sat/sodium content. He and I talked at length about that very thing.
 
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Just to be clear, Dave’s recipe used NO SALT Kitchen Basics veg broth. This choice was on purpose to allow you do control sat/sodium content. He and I talked at length about that very thing.

Correct. Dave's choice of Kitchen Basis No Salt veg. broth was deliberate and for the reason you describe.

Unfortunately Kitchen Basics no longer appears to be available in Canada and I needed an alternate option. This led me down the path of trying 9-10 different veg broths before settling on BTB. I have to say, some broths were just plain awful!

The path didn't end there though as I then needed to account for the level of salt in my chosen substitute so I deduct it from the kosher salt I was adding in the recipe, hence the discussion I posted earlier.
 
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Correct. Dave's choice of Kitchen Basis No Salt veg. broth was deliberate and for the reason you describe.

Unfortunately Kitchen Basics no longer appears to be available in Canada and I needed an alternate option. This led me down the path of trying 9-10 different veg broths before settling on BTB. I have to say, some broths were just plain awful!

The path didn't end there though as I then needed to account for the level of salt in my chosen substitute so I deduct it from the kosher salt I was adding in the recipe, hence the discussion I posted earlier.
All a true story. KB veg broth is almost unobtainium around here too. Amazon still has it for now and one grocery store here has it occasionally. I just went another route and back to a water based brine but “tea” herbs in the brine. Really good results so far and I have better control on final flavor.
 
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Agree with others the stock was not really to my liking and a PITA to find. Not really an exact method but typical stock is prolly 2% salt so 2% of 10% stock is .2% so lower your salt by .2%. Dave used 2% salt so only use 1.8% with your salted stock. Not done it yet but a huge fan of bouillon as of late and plan to use it for curing. Knorr veggie bouillon is KILLER. While I am at it, I would suggest distilled water if you are using water in place of the stock or making your own.
 
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, I would suggest distilled water
He's onto something here . I tried it at his suggestion for Pop's brine . It's an improvement that I can't but my finger on . I use Distilled or spring , whichever I have . Really made a difference .

I personally Like the veggie stock in the ham , and think it's needed in Dave's method . Sure other stuff works just fine .
 
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