2 Briskets, Different Sizes

[jlafrenz]

Going to attempt my first brisket smoke this evening. I have 2 briskets. One is 6.5# and the other is just shy of 5#. Should I put them on at the same time or should I put the smaller one on about an hour and a half later?

Also, if I am reading correctly, I should treat these (for est. cook time) as the weight they are and not add them together correct?

 

[forluvofsmoke]

Going to attempt my first brisket smoke this evening. I have 2 briskets. One is 6.5# and the other is just shy of 5#. Should I put them on at the same time or should I put the smaller one on about an hour and a half later?

If using a horizontal smoker w/sfb and you want them finished at the same time, then add the smaller one a bit later, or if you have a known cooler grate temp, you could place the smaller of the two on that area for a more balanced cooking of the two pieces. The same could be done with a vertical smoker, or, if you have reasonably even grate temps regarding different grate levels, you could place the smaller of the two above the heavier piece. This would create a baffling effect on the heat getting to the smaller piece and slow down the cooking a bit. I've used these methods a lot in the past and they all will work to your advantage.

Also, if I am reading correctly, I should treat these (for est. cook time) as the weight they are and not add them together correct?

That's correct, each individual piece will cook to an approx. time based on it's weight.

Have a great smoke!

Eric

 

[dog1234]

Do you have two gauges to measure both IT of each brisket seperatly?

 

[scarbelly]

Eric gave you some great advice - follow that to success and don't forget the qview

 

[jlafrenz]

I should have mentioned that I am using a UDS. I just built a shelf out of expanded metal so I can have 2 grates at the top. I was originally intending to use them for doing 2 pizza's, but I could probably use it this way for brisket. My center grate temps tend to be about 25-35 degrees hotter than the outside edge. I do have multiple thermometers. One is the ET-732 and the other is a basic Maverick one that just does temp.

Eric, you stated that stacking them would slow the cook time a bit. I am OK with this, but how much do you think it will slow it down? My pork butts have been taking 2 hr's per pound in the 225-250 range. I am going to "try" and keep the temps down closer to 225 or slightly lower. I figure the briskets should also take about the same time per pound.

 

[forluvofsmoke]

I should have mentioned that I am using a UDS. I just built a shelf out of expanded metal so I can have 2 grates at the top. I was originally intending to use them for doing 2 pizza's, but I could probably use it this way for brisket. My center grate temps tend to be about 25-35 degrees hotter than the outside edge. I do have multiple thermometers. One is the ET-732 and the other is a basic Maverick one that just does temp.

Eric, you stated that stacking them would slow the cook time a bit. I am OK with this, but how much do you think it will slow it down? My pork butts have been taking 2 hr's per pound in the 225-250 range. I am going to "try" and keep the temps down closer to 225 or slightly lower. I figure the briskets should also take about the same time per pound.

Just to clarify, when I mentioned putting the small one above the other (stacking, as you stated), the smaller piece would be on the next grate position above. The results can be effected by grate position temps, example being, the higher the grate level the hotter the temp, translates into a possible situation where the smaller piece, even though it's being baffled by another piece below it, still cooks at the same grate temp. So, this method will only work if the grate temps at the 2 levels would normally be the same, until you put a piece of meat below the upper grate. I've actually had to do just the opposite when these conditions exist: larger on top where it's hotter, smaller just beneath it...it just depends on the smoker and how it performs. Knowing your grate temp variances during normal smoking conditions is an important part of finding solutions to some these issues you may encounter from time to time.

Briskets, especially a center-cut (trimmed flat) instead of a whole packer, can take less time per pound than a pork butt, due to less cross-sectional density (not as thick), so there can be a bit different time-frame involved between the two cuts, with similar weather conditions and while using the same smoker. Also, fat-cap thickness, or lack thereof, can change cooking time for different cuts of meat quite a lot.

Regarding how much  stacking them it will slow it down will depend on the actual temp you will achieve by using the meat beneath it as a baffle. I always monitor grate temps with a probe when I make changes to the smoker's configuration, and using one piece of meat to baffle heat getting to another is no different...you effectively change the flow of heat through the smoke chamber by doing so.

If the grate temp for the smaller piece, judging by your weight differences, were about 10-15*, they should come out about the same total cooking time if finished temps are the same.

The catch is the plateau (stall). Each piece of meat will have different characteristics regarding stall time and temp ranges...you never know what temp and for how long, so even with the best laid and executed plans to compensate for weight differences, they may still not finish close to the same time.

If you plan to rest in foil, this is where you can balance out the finished time, and have them both sliced and ready to eat at the same time.

All things considered, I wouldn't sweat it too much...do what you think you can to help them cook evenly, but don't get your blood pressure up if you don't get it real close. I have tried my damndest to make this same situation work out for me on many occasions, and sometimes I get close, but more often, I don't. If one, for example, is @ 150* and the other is @ 130*, then you could make a quick change on grate positions to reverse or balance out the temp differences. If it were later in the smoke when you caught it (around 160* or higher, with a target temp of 180*), you probably can't do very much to even them out, as it's too late in the game to make any changes that will have much of an impact.

Eric

 

[jlafrenz]

Thanks for all of the clarification. I don't have 2 thermometers that would measure grate temp, just meat temp. I don't think there would be too much of a difference in temps as the 2nd rack I made only has 3 inch legs on it. I use the flat lid that came with the barrel so I don't have a lot of room. The top brisket would be very close to the top of the UDS. There also isn't much space in between the bottom brisket and the 2nd rack. Maybe about 1/4 to 1/2 inch max. Not sure if this is good or not. I know it would run into issues with my foiling as there is no room to "tent".

I think my best bet is to throw the second one on at the same time or just a bit later using the same rack. Lunch is at 2:30 tomorrow so I am starting the smoke around 1AM. This should give me plenty of time to keep the heat low and pace for about 1 1/2 to 2 hours per pound. If one finishes up early, it can sit in the cooler for a bit longer.

 

[dragonmaster194]

Sounds like a good plan, don't forget the Qview so some of us can drool!  Steve

 

[forluvofsmoke]

Sounds like a good plan, don't forget the Qview so some of us can drool!  Steve

AGREED! LOL!!!

Thanks for all of the clarification. I don't have 2 thermometers that would measure grate temp, just meat temp. I don't think there would be too much of a difference in temps as the 2nd rack I made only has 3 inch legs on it. I use the flat lid that came with the barrel so I don't have a lot of room. The top brisket would be very close to the top of the UDS. There also isn't much space in between the bottom brisket and the 2nd rack. Maybe about 1/4 to 1/2 inch max. Not sure if this is good or not. I know it would run into issues with my foiling as there is no room to "tent".

I think my best bet is to throw the second one on at the same time or just a bit later using the same rack. Lunch is at 2:30 tomorrow so I am starting the smoke around 1AM. This should give me plenty of time to keep the heat low and pace for about 1 1/2 to 2 hours per pound. If one finishes up early, it can sit in the cooler for a bit longer.

You're welcome.

Yeah, you want want to put large pieces that close to each other in a stacked fashion, or the one on top just won't cook...too much heat baffling from the one below. Your double-grate configuration with the smaller gap will work fine for chicken pieces, wings, quarters (*if staggered a bit) and other small cuts of meats like CSRs or chops. Otherwise, for larger cuts, I like to leave about 8" space between the grate positions such as a couple whole packer briskets or butts in a stacked fashion...they increase in height from lateral muscle shrinkage during cooking quite a bit, and will actually make contact with the grate above if it's very close at all. This compounds the heat baffling effect as well.

Yep, adding the smaller one later is what I'd do in this situation...much easier to make things happen the way you'd like them to. Call it the KISS method for this smoke...simple solution for what could turn into a head-ache, otherwise.

Eric

 

[jlafrenz]

Update - I ended up getting the first brisket on right around 2AM and the second on at 3:30AM. Just probed both of them for IT and the first is at 156 and the second is at 142. Pretty close, but thinking I may have been able to put them both on at the same time. That opportunity is past so I'm not going to sweat it. I rotated the grate just in case one side was warmer than the other too. I am hoping to time the foiling at just about the same time for each. If I have to I will pull the first one off and get the foil and juice ready while the other takes on some more heat. I think I will have them both pretty close and feel pretty good about my first attempt with brisket.

 

[forluvofsmoke]

Yes, you can iron some wrinkles during resting. Doing fine so far, and you're thinking ahead. Piece a cake!!!

Eric

 

[jlafrenz]

The first piece hit the stall and has allowed the other to catch up. In fact, it is a little ahead now. Some early morning rain showers have cooled my temps and slowed me a bit. Hoping for a few more degrees before foiling.

 

[jlafrenz]

Well the briskets turned out decent... edible anyway. They came off the smoker about 10 minutes apart from each other so I don't that could have been timed any better. Thanks for all the help with timing. The flavor was there, but the tenderness wasn't where I wanted it. I foiled close to the 165 mark and then back on the smoker until 195. Not sure if I let them go too long or not long enough. There should have been plenty of moisture since I was able to pour it in a pan right out of the foil. It did seem that after I cut the slices, they dry out fairly quickly. Is this the nature of the beast? Any thoughts would be welcomed. Anyway, here is a pic.

2012-08-12_14-54-34_231.jpg

• jlafrenz
• Aug 12, 2012

 

[forluvofsmoke]

Yeah, getting the timing down that close is a pretty good hit...rare, IMHO. Well done on that! Looks really good at first glance...let's take a closer look and see where you're coming from, but before I do, my first thoughts are...

Dried out right after slicing...hmm...probably just surface moisture from the meat fibers escaping to atmosphere...it happens. But if lack of tenderness and a dry chew were noticed, they are linked together, to some degree.

How moist is your smoke chamber, normally? Do you use a water pan, or just a baffle plate over the coal basket? 195* may have been just a bit high for finished temps, but I have taken them that high for slicing before, and did notice a bit of dryness...but I have also have experienced worse for dryness, too, with lower finished temps.

OK, another thought: how long did you rest before slicing, and was the foil bundle wrapped in a towel to keep it hot longer? When resting, you want temps to drop off slowly, or else meat juices may not have time to redistribute thoroughly. You should see some juices on the board while slicing if it's too hot to cut, didn't rest long enough, or temps fell of too quickly.

***I clicked on the photo to enlarge and get a better idea, and in doing so, I see a good smoke ring, so the smoke chamber humidity must be at least moderate to high, and also realizing you're burning charcoal or lump, they help to produce a lot of NO2, which is actually what builds the smoke ring. I find that high humidity helps for even better smoke reaction and smoke ring development.

With lean muscle such as the flat (low to no inter-muscular fat), they are more susceptible to drying out when finished at higher internal temps. Keeping the fat cap on helps reduce this internal moisture loss, but reduces smoke reaction under the fat cap, so it's kind of a compromise to have surface fat.

Now, here's where I may raise a few arguments, though I have tested this theory on lean-trimmed pork butts and have not had the opportunity to test it on leaner meats: dry smoke chamber for the last half or more of the total cooking time tightens the meat fibers and reduces natural interior moisture loss, by reducing porosity of the surface. But a dry cooking environment will dry out the meat, right? Nope, just the surface. The wet smoke chamber keeps meat fibers loose and the surface porous, allowing for far more smoke reaction time than a dry smoke chamber, but if the humidity stays high throughout the cooking with high internal finished temps, the porous surface of the meat will release more natural moisture from the meat in the form of water vapor. This is why I asked about your smoke chamber humidity and if you use a water pan or just a baffle plate of some sort...this could very likely have a huge impact on your interior moisture of the finished brisket flat, and, IMHO, can be the easiest things to change for a better result in the future.

My second test of this theory is found here:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/...mmed-butt-wet-dry-smoke-chamber-q-view-method

S2K9K (Dave) has tried a close replication of this method (as best he could during his pork butt smoke) and concurred with the results:

http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/t/124191/taking-my-pulled-pork-to-a-new-level

If this is a method that could be incorporated into your UDS (which I'm sure it can be with a little thought on the subject), you may have the solution to dry sliced brisket flat just one mod away, and this could be done without foiling until you rest the meat, so, a bit less tinkering inside the drum to mess with foiling while the smoker is still fired-up and loosing heat. You may be able to run a wet pan over the fire, and if you get the water volume correct for the desired wet chamber time, just let it run dry for the remainder of the smoke, creating a very close replication to the cooking environment I had with my second test. Food for thought...

Eric

EDIT: I just realized something about the UDS that may be an inherent issue: they have very low ventilation rates compared to smokers I'm accustomed to using, which can create a naturally high humidity in the smoke chamber due to moisture evaporation from the meat as it progresses through cooking. Not to bash the UDS, but my method for a dry smoke chamber may not be possible, in this case...crap! Well, we can still discuss it find out where or if you may be able to make a change. I'm not giving up on finding a solution that easily...LOL!

 

[smokinhusker]

Looks pretty good! I have followed Eric's brisket "advice" for both of mine and they have turned out fantastic. I only smoked the second one to a 175-180 IT since 195* was a bit too fall apart for our taste. 

 

[jlafrenz]

My original thought was to take the briskets to an even higher temp as I have seen some say as high as 205. I figured by going to 195 I would be right in the middle of 180 to 205. I could try a lower temp next time. The briskets rested in the foil and juice for almost 3 hours. There was juice on the cutting board when I sliced them. I felt like my moisture was there, but it was still a bit tough. This is why I thought a higher temp was in order.

As for a baffle, I don't use one at all. I have been considering it lately though as I think it may help with a couple of the issues I have been having. I typically just smoke one thing at a time such as a pork butt. This gets placed in the center of the rack so I am less concerned with the variations of heat across the grate. Also, these have come out quite moist for me. I am assuming that this is attributed to the higher fat content. This was my first larger smoke. I think adding a baffle will be beneficial to more even grate temps. Originally I was only about 15-25 degrees off max and now I am seeing upwards of 40 degrees or so. I am planing to get with the UDS crowd to figure out a good baffle system. I also do not use a water pan. I have read mixed results and no experience of my own.

I smoked these fat cap down to protect from the heat of the UDS. One of the briskets I put in the foil meat side down so it was directly in the juice. The other, I kept fat cap down in the juice. I did this to experiment. To me they both came out about the same moisture.

I will have to take a look and read through those other threads shortly.