15 year old Generac not running...replace?

[JckDanls 07]

So here's my thoughts as far as what it will power... You say it's a 7K genset... But can only run a few items... I'm at odds with that as I run a Yamaha 6300 inverter genset when power goes out... I run the whole house on it minus the AC, water heater,and stove ... Otherwise I run my well (220v). Two refers, All outlets, all lights, All ceiling fans (one in each room), 3 TV's, a PC and a laptop.. When we need hot water I will turn off some items and heat up the water then turn it back off... It will stay hot for a day or so... Automatically adjusts engine speed for power demand... So it's fuel efficient...
So I am confused on why your 7K won't run all these things...

 

[sandyut]

So here's my thoughts as far as what it will power... You say it's a 7K genset... But can only run a few items... I'm at odds with that as I run a Yamaha 6300 inverter genset when power goes out... I run the whole house on it minus the AC, water heater,and stove ... Otherwise I run my well (220v). Two refers, All outlets, all lights, All ceiling fans (one in each room), 3 TV's, a PC and a laptop.. When we need hot water I will turn off some items and heat up the water then turn it back off... It will stay hot for a day or so... Automatically adjusts engine speed for power demand... So it's fuel efficient...
So I am confused on why your 7K won't run all these things...

You are at sea level. I’m at 8200 ft. There is a big loss of power at elevation. Generac says 1/3 less.

 

[schlotz]

Given what I've read, it comes down to finding a different and competent source for maintenance/repair and that appears to be the crux of the problem given your location. Then there is the lingering concern of just how well they could keep a newer generac running for the next 15 years. If there is no other source for repair or new purchase then IMO it's roll the dice and get a new generac. We did get a whole house one for our new house after waiting a year with no availability due to supposed covid related issue. Definitely love it. Exercises every Monday evening at 4pm. Had a couple of long power outages in 95+ degree heat, it did its thing and the house remained at 73º.

 

[sandyut]

Given what I've read, it comes down to finding a different and competent source for maintenance/repair and that appears to be the crux of the problem given your location. Then there is the lingering concern of just how well they could keep a newer generac running for the next 15 years. If there is no other source for repair or new purchase then IMO it's roll the dice and get a new generac. We did get a whole house one for our new house after waiting a year with no availability due to supposed covid related issue. Definitely love it. Exercises every Monday evening at 4pm. Had a couple of long power outages in 95+ degree heat, it did its thing and the house remained at 73º.

Replacing it has been on our long list since we bought the house. it just died prematurely (before planned). It only powers minimally, a full house would be a huge upgrade. The one we have is so old I dont think many people have seen it or know it well. I talked with Generac tech support and even they seemed to struggle to discuss what the issue may be.

When I look at the new ones, they look like a new Mercedes compared to the 1970 VW we have.

Last winter we went 2.5 days without power in a 5' snow storm. It kept a light on and the refers going, but that was all. Thankfully we have a fireplace.

 

[normanaj]

The one we have is so old I dont think many people have seen it or know it well.

15 years for a standby Generac shouldn't even be considered slightly old.Definitely look for a more competent company to look at getting that generator doing what it's supposed to do,to me it sounds like the Generac dealer/repair folks are looking for a new sale.

Last winter we went 2.5 days without power in a 5' snow storm. It kept a light on and the refers going, but that was all. Thankfully we have a fireplace

I don't care what elevation you're at a 7kw standby should do a hell of a lot more than that.Again sounds like they're looking for a new sale.

 

[normanaj]

.

 

[JckDanls 07]

Yea.. I don't buy the elevation excuse ether..

 

[JckDanls 07]

So I just asked the Googler about elevation and power loss... It is a factor and the loss of power is about 3.5% for every 1000 ft of altitude... They do offer higher elevation kits to be fitted onto a genset to compensate... hhhmmmmm

 

[processhead]

So I just asked the Googler about elevation and power loss... It is a factor and the loss of power is about 3.5% for every 1000 ft of altitude... They do offer higher elevation kits to be fitted onto a genset to compensate... hhhmmmmm

Are those kits for NG or gasoline fueled generators? Re-jetting carburetors for gasoline engine at higher elevations is a common practice.
Not aware of such a thing for NG fueled engines? Carburetors on NG engines don't use the jets. They are basically just air and fuel mixing chambers.
You got me curious.

 

[zwiller]

In to learn and just did some digging as I do electrical work and am considering one myself. You can actually buy them at a supply house if you have access. This bypasses dealer markup which I bet is pretty big (like 2x). You can also order online cheaper than a dealer. Electrician and plumber can install easy/hard work is done. I am hearing the new ones are REALLY high tech. Wifi hookup to check vitals etc. All that being said, agree with normanaj and others sounds like this new sale pressure.

 

[radioguy]

I looked and due to lack of oxygen you have to debate that 7kW to about 4.5kW. Given that see how much you can sell / trade it. I had no idea that altitude affected engines so much.

Buy one sufficiently larger for All your needs. Turbo or super charger helps with altitude.
I did put soft starts on my RV AC and heat pump. They make them for home units too.

RG

 

[normanaj]

Carburetors on NG engines don't use the jets. They are basically just air and fuel mixing chambers.
You got me curious.

I was thinking about that myself,I'm no mechanic but there must be a way to adjust for air.I shudder to think what one would spend on home heating if you have a furnace that runs on NG/Propane if there was no ability to make adjustments to compensate for altitude.

 

[sandyut]

Altitude is really a thing for all combustion engines.

The gen we have has not been problem free since we moved in. Also clearly not cared for. Like I said, upgrading has been on the radar for a while. This may just be the push we needed.

We have found so much sketchy work done on this house. It would not surprise me if this was some second hand unit hooked up by a half wit either.

 

[normanaj]

I looked and due to lack of oxygen you have to debate that 7kW to about 4.5kW.

4.5kW should run more than a light and a couple refers.My 3500 watt portable runs my entire house minus using the stove,dryer or microwave.

 

[Up_In_Smoke]

So I just asked the Googler about elevation and power loss... It is a factor and the loss of power is about 3.5% for every 1000 ft of altitude... They do offer higher elevation kits to be fitted onto a genset to compensate... hhhmmmmm

You know, I ain't the greatest at math but:

3.5% loss per 1000 feet times 8,200 feet equals 28.7%.

 

[philpom]

OK, try this:

Squirt some starting fluid in and crank the motor. When it sputters, spray in a little more.
Keep doing that for a couple of minutes (if possible).
Obviously you want to keep the squirt time small.

If this works, then slam the choke closed as the motor speeds up. Then open and re-squirt.
The idea is to pull any obstruction in the carb through the system.

Like Jim_C said, since it is trying to run, it only leaves a fuel filter and carb.

It's natural gas so there is at least 1 maybe 2 regulators involved here. Replace them, they are cheap. Also, is the line sucking air anywhere along the run? You can buy a 10kw auto starting generator and enclosure for under $2k and wire it in.

Is it really natural gas or is it propane?

 

[sandyut]

Given what I've read, it comes down to finding a different and competent source for maintenance/repair and that appears to be the crux of the problem given your location. Then there is the lingering concern of just how well they could keep a newer generac running for the next 15 years. If there is no other source for repair or new purchase then IMO it's roll the dice and get a new generac. We did get a whole house one for our new house after waiting a year with no availability due to supposed covid related issue. Definitely love it. Exercises every Monday evening at 4pm. Had a couple of long power outages in 95+ degree heat, it did its thing and the house remained at 73º.

I left messages and emails about service and a quote on a new one to the the other Generac service and supplier up here and got nothing. Nothing make me more upset than basically telling a company you may spend a ton of money with them and get no response.

We are leaning towards the new replacement. It should cover the whole house and some heat. We have electric baseboard heat, so not sure about all, but some would be great and the electric water heater??? Dunno if all that is in the cards, but gonna check. Moving it more out of sight would be nice too. the dead one is not in the best location.

 

[pineywoods]

If it's 15 years old and 7kw I would guess a new larger unit would require you to change out some maybe most of the wiring and switch

 

[processhead]

Agree, it is frustrating when they basically say "sorry, we don't want your business.

It doesn't sound like cost is your main concern, but when you start splitting off loads like baseboard heat and other selected loads for the generator, you are potentially looking at significant labor and material costs.

 

[forktender]

I was thinking about that myself,I'm no mechanic but there must be a way to adjust for air.I shudder to think what one would spend on home heating if you have a furnace that runs on NG/Propane if there was no ability to make adjustments to compensate for altitude.

There is a way, you can change the orifice to a larger one, it's like rejetting a carb.
It will help quite a bit, but it will never perform as well as it would at sea level.

I'm betting that the orifice on sandyut gen set is funked up with crap from his fuel supplier.
Personally, I'd take apart the fuel block/IE: the so called carb, and blast everything out with carb cleaner, or toss the whole thing into an ultrasonic cleaner overnight.

This is what I would try first, before calling in the pro's.