15 year old Generac not running...replace?

[sandyut]

I talked with the company that installs and maintains our HVAC. They do not recommend the on demand hot water. They say the maintenance on them is very high and needs to be done several times a year especially if you have hard water.

oh yeah, all our water is very hard well water. I will deal with the tanks till the tech improves.

 

[clifish]

oh yeah, all our water is very hard well water. I will deal with the tanks till the tech improves.

we have soft, acidic water and it is still not recommended.

 

[philpom]

I agree. The main issue where we live is in the inlet water temp in winter is very cold. hurt your hands cold. I will check it in Dec. Our water comes from a storage tank on the hill above us and winters are quite cold. Jan/Feb we usually get a couple weeks at or below zero.

When I talk to plumbers that is the main concern as on demands are stated to raise temp by X amount-I believe. could be wrong.

We use a portable instant hot water heater at our vacation home. It's easy to drain, winterize and store when we aren't there. The water comes from a 600' deep well and is icy cold. We have to keep the water heater turned way down or it'll boil you. I would hope an expensive permanent model could at least perform that well.

 

[philpom]

oh yeah, all our water is very hard well water. I will deal with the tanks till the tech improves.

Just read this after my previous post. Yep, hard water is an issue for instant hot water. I need to flush ours routinely with vinegar and we only use it a few months each year.

 

[yankee2bbq]

Just read this after my previous post. Yep, hard water is an issue for instant hot water. I need to flush ours routinely with vinegar and we only use it a few months each year.

Would adding a water softener solve this issue?

 

[philpom]

Would adding a water softener solve this issue?

Absolutely would, that's one of the primary benefits of one, it extends the life of your water appliances.

 

[zwiller]

All the old techs who had experience on non fuel injected engines are retired

These guys are missing out. They should be teaching and making money.

I feel bad, I could get this sorted out pretty easy with 2-3 calls and a few beers.

ALL this stuff is a balancing act or sorts. Whole house gen vs basics, electric/vs gas, tankless vs traditional. Sometimes the choice is simply preference. IE I plan to go tankless and one of the main reasons is so washer and dryer are next to one another. They're not now. Been researching this of and on. On the water temp thing, seems odd at first but you can add a holding tank before the unit to fix that and also if hardness is REALLY bad you should be softening anyhow. The tankless technology is VERY mature nowadays. Most of you guys are empty nesters (I got 3 girls) but these ACTUALLY do _endless_ hot water (and cheaper than tanked). I've taken a few less than ideal temp showers... Lastly, as I work in real estate, tankless heaters are seen as a premium feature.

 

[sandyut]

Would adding a water softener solve this issue?

I woundnt count on it. We had a softener in SLC and somehow if filled the water heater with salt build up and eventually caused it to fail. The plumber had to vacuum the water out of the busted heater as it wouldnt drain. The softener was "newer" as we had it installed. Softeners are nice, but not maintenance free.

In Brians post about bad luck someone had their fail and send beads through the pipes that broke all the faucets.

 

[zwiller]

Do you know your hardness? Most people think their water is really hard when it's not. Comes from the days when water softener sales people were a little shady. While I am talking about if, if you are wet brining or curing switch to distilled and you probably will see a quality bump.

 

[Up_In_Smoke]

These guys are missing out. They should be teaching and making money.

I rebuilt my first Holley in 1967.
I was the youngest person to ever attend what is now
known as the University of Northwest Ohio. UNOH
Back then it was the NBC-Technical Center.
I received an associate degree in Auto Mechanics in 1976.

But, I do not have the patience to try to teach anybody.

 

[Fueling Around]

Sorry I have not kept up with this thread. Keep falling asleep at the keyboard when I get home.
I'm tired and retired, but still work full time in the summer.

Some points with my experience with NG powered engines which is city buses.

When was the last time the spark plug(s) replaced?
NG is a lean burn and they are really tough on plugs. Plan to re gap or replacing on a 6 month cycle.

Dirty crankcase oil is not something you usually see with NG engines.
Get a used oil analysis for about $20. It will tell you the source of dirty oil. I suspect an air leak somewhere in the intake plumbing.

Other replies have recommended a compression test on the engine. NG is very fussy about the compression to get the engine started. But probably not if it starts but stutters, then I think a fuel system problem

Gaskets fail all over the place. Don't remember who pointed that problem.
Replace all in the fuel system. Age not hours is their life expectancy.

Starting a NG engine often requires a very low WC pressure, much lower than operation pressure.
We had to almost close the main shutoff valve to get the buses started especially in cooler weather. I'm sure Generac is very supportive (sarcasm in left eye) about high altitude.

Consider disabling the auto start and exercise features and doing it yourself.

 

[Fueling Around]

Moving on to other considerations.
If you have NG service at 8,000 ft you are a lucky person. Why the builder didn't use forced air furnace is what I don't understand. Cheap heat and easy to add central air. Maybe the gas service came after the house was built?

My (now) summer house is 100% electric because it was built in the "electric is better in the 1980's". I should have changed out the electric baseboard to a hot water system but didn't have the spare cash until it was after the time to recoup the cost. A/C is by a couple of ductless units.
Lucky they had a water softener but not sure when installed. I suspect after house build due to the corrosion on solder fittings or maybe due to the crap electrician that didn't bond all the the cold and hot water lines to ground. Softener failures are very very rare in flushing the beads into your house system.
Adding point of use (tankless) water heaters require a lot of plumbing for water and gas. When your water is very cold a tempering tank resolves the issue. Your old electric heater stripped of the cover and insulation makes a great tempering tank

 

[Chasdev]

I rebuilt my first Holley in 1967.
I was the youngest person to ever attend what is now
known as the University of Northwest Ohio. UNOH
Back then it was the NBC-Technical Center.
I received an associate degree in Auto Mechanics in 1976.

But, I do not have the patience to try to teach anybody.

My mentor, when I first applied my self taught skills as an entry level mechcanic, was A.J. Pagnozi (he his name was on the patent for the idle mixture design used by all carbs).
He told me that doing is one skill but teaching is another skill and you have to train on how to teach.
I know, I tried to teach a few intro level techs back in the 90's and found I got mad at their mistakes and/or pre-concieved ideas that led them wrong.
I realized pretty quick that teaching different personality types is not easy and a good teacher is also a psychologist.

 

[Up_In_Smoke]

I still say to replace the generator.
It does you no good if it won't start when it's needed.

And there are too many "It could be this", "It could be that's" involved with the old one.

I'm sure the OP's wife will agree with me. :)

 

[Chasdev]

Lack of skilled repair guys is the root cause.
A stepper (WWII term for a hot shot mechanic), (true term to describe a hot dancer who moved his feet so fast he could cut a rug) would follow logical test steps and diagnose the issue/s.
Remember “Sling Blade” where the unfixable lawn mower was only out of fuel?

 

[Up_In_Smoke]

I agree with the lack of qualified repair people.
I could probably diagnose and fix it in an afternoon.

But, bottom line is that if a power outage occurs today, the OP will be without power.
And who knows for how long??

 

[Chasdev]

If the funds are available buy a new one for sure.

 

[sandyut]

Moving on to other considerations.
If you have NG service at 8,000 ft you are a lucky person. Why the builder didn't use forced air furnace is what I don't understand. Cheap heat and easy to add central air. Maybe the gas service came after the house was built?

My (now) summer house is 100% electric because it was built in the "electric is better in the 1980's". I should have changed out the electric baseboard to a hot water system but didn't have the spare cash until it was after the time to recoup the cost. A/C is by a couple of ductless units.
Lucky they had a water softener but not sure when installed. I suspect after house build due to the corrosion on solder fittings or maybe due to the crap electrician that didn't bond all the the cold and hot water lines to ground. Softener failures are very very rare in flushing the beads into your house system.
Adding point of use (tankless) water heaters require a lot of plumbing for water and gas. When your water is very cold a tempering tank resolves the issue. Your old electric heater stripped of the cover and insulation makes a great tempering tank

We got lucky on several services here at our elevation, NG, municipal water, comcast internet, solar. Very few homes have these especially not all.

Many if not most home up here are heated with electricity due to lack of options. No clue why they didnt use forced air. neighbor on one side has electric, other side has forced air. I assue the gas was always here. but who knows.

 

[sandyut]

I still say to replace the generator.
It does you no good if it won't start when it's needed.

And there are too many "It could be this", "It could be that's" involved with the old one.

I'm sure the OP's wife will agree with me. :)

Exactly! Tired of guessing about the issues and need the reliability and trust.

If the funds are available buy a new one for sure.

We had replacing it ont he long list as we were unsure of how much more use we would get out of it. Getting a quote for a 14Kw (2x larger) so we can have more on it.

 

[sandyut]

Had the install guy out for a quote yesterday and his comments were telling and support some of our concerns - rough DIY job. The current (original install) doesnt look like a certified electrician did the work. I know for sure the gas line plumbing was not done by a plumber as we already had some of that fixed to code. So its gonna hurt on the $$ side for a while, but overall should be much better.