Will this work? Cure #2 question.

[indaswamp]

Found this too Dave:

Botulism spores are everywhere – from the deep ocean to mountain tops. You're likely breathing them right now. It's only under specific conditions that they become dangerous.

Normally, botulism spores hang out and go right through your body without causing problems. They're tough critters. Hours of boiling, heat, cold, chemicals – they can survive them all. Problems show up when the spores germinate. When the spores become biologically active, they produce deadly neurotoxins. Out in the dirt, no big deal. There are plenty of other microbes to balance things out, and the toxins don't build up to high levels. Stored in your canning pantry – not good.

https://commonsensehome.com/botulism/

 

[indaswamp]

spores are fine, as long as they do not grow into clostridium botulinum bacteria it won't hurt you

Spores mature into the bacteria in a warm moist environment... like your gut... spores are not fine...

Botulism needs a neutral pH to grow, which is why ingesting the spores won't hurt you, except for small babies that do not have their defenses fully developed-which is why you should not feed a baby honey in any form.

Deaths from botulism occur ingesting the already developed bacteria and the toxins....


At least this is the way I understand it....

 

[DanMcG]

I was thinking above 140°

 

[indaswamp]

I was thinking above 140°

Are you suggesting stepping up the temp. to 140* or getting the smokehouse up to 140*, then putting the boudin in the smokehouse?

 

[DanMcG]

I was wrong, I was thinking 140 ° because it 's out of the danger zone but obviously the meat would be in it for a couple hours anyways while smoking.

 

[indaswamp]

Yea, the sausage will trail the smokehouse temp by 25~30*, it will not get out of the danger zone. Which is why I went with 160*....and the casing just keeps popping on me....:confused:

 

[DanMcG]

Hmmmmm, Liquid smoke? :rolleyes:

 

[indaswamp]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

I guess I'll need to do more research to see if cure will penetrate cooked meat. Hopefully Chef JJ will see this and comment his thoughts.

 

[DanMcG]

there is a couple threads here on SMF, and there's a few that do it. check it out. I was also wrong about my post saying you have a six hour window to cool cooked meat in the zone. USDA says 2 hours. And to reheat cooked meat you need to get it up to 165°, which doesn't work for you. Wish I had an answer.
Maybe go down to that butcher shop and get a job for a day and see how they do it. ;)

 

[indaswamp]

Maybe go down to that butcher shop and get a job for a day and see how they do it. ;)

I have thought about it.....believe me....

 

[indaswamp]

I make offal sausage ....cooked organs....cold smoked after stuffing. But i do this during winter.

If you are concerned with what could happen during a long no heat smoke in mild weather why don't you add cure to the mix before stuffing the sausage?

What temps are you cold smoking? I've seen some of your creations in nose to tail forum. You are boiling the offal first, then making say stuffed stomach and smoking? Are you using any cure when you stuff?

 

[atomicsmoke]

No cure, everything is cooked before stuffing. But i can count on low temps when i smoke them (i make these in winter).

 

[indaswamp]

so you are smoking under 40*??

 

[atomicsmoke]

At times it could be above 40.

 

[indaswamp]

So you are not worried about botulism? Or are you just ok with the risks?

 

[atomicsmoke]

I sent you a PM

 

[indaswamp]

Add the cure to the cold meat and smoke away...

Dave, will the cure penetrate cold already cooked meat? if it will, but I just will not get a pink color because the myoglobin has already set, I'm fine with that. I just want to be able to warm smoke some boudin.

 

[daveomak]

Yes the cure will penetrate... the meat "should" turn pink... it's a chemical reaction.. the chemicals are still there... I don't know if a 40-50 degree rise in the meat temperature can make a chemical change...

 

[indaswamp]

Yes the cure will penetrate... the meat "should" turn pink... it's a chemical reaction.. the chemicals are still there... I don't know if a 40-50 degree rise in the meat temperature can make a chemical change...

Alright Dave... Thank you for your patience. I have one more question...
Do I need to add cure based on the weight of just the meat; the meat and skin; or the meat, skin, and any liquids I add (cooked stock)? What about the cooked rice? Do I include that in the weight?

Next batch of boudin, I will add cure and smoke. I'll post a thread for everyone to follow.

 

[daveomak]

Ppm is a ratio of weights... 1 gram of nitrite added to 1,000,000 grams of something = ~1 Ppm....

Due to the wide range of effectiveness nitrite has, and still be "safe" to consume... And, considering we are not "necessarily" governed by the FDA, as home processors... Doing the best we can with what we have, is a giant leap forward in home food safety...
Bones & pork skin can be exempt in calculating nitrite addition... chicken skin, I think, should be included... also rice and any soup stock, as both can be contaminated and re contaminate other food stuffs....
If you are adding 1/4 cup of water to facilitate stuffing a casing, it's not a big deal if that weight is not included in any calculations...
You can calculate the effect on NOT including a weight...
5#'s of meat and stuff (2270 gms) ... 1/4 cup water = 59 grams
59 / 2270 = 2.5% .. target of 159 Ppm and 2.5% difference = +/- ~4 Ppm... That is within our limits of accuracy.. and not a big deal....