Why do my burgers suck?

[SmokinVOLfan]

85/15?
Grass fed?
The dude wants good tasting burgers!
He didn't ask for a healthier burger.

Hell I'm all up for 80/20. If it was up to my wife we would have dry 93/7 burgers! Have to compromise somewhere. Grass fed beef just tastes better in my opinion.

 

[troutman]

I'm not a fan of the fish sauce idea. Cook's Illustrated created a lot of recipes for meat where they claimed that fish sauce provided more intense meat flavors, but for me, it just added a fishy taste.

I wanted to speak to the fish sauce thing a little bit. The idea behind using fish sauce is not to marinade or spice up the meat, the concept is a faux or mock dry aging effect. The idea is to use a very small amount, like a couple of tablespoons per pound of say steak, let that marinade in a sealed bag in the fridg for up to 3 days. When the meat comes out it doesn't have the fishy aroma left, and does produce the appearance and more intensified taste of dry age beef. You then cook it like any other steak. I have not tried it personally, I use Umai bags and go through the 30 day process, but guys I know who have say its very close to dry aging. In this case, and for burgers, it's not the right application.

I'm also a bit surprised, I read through the entire thread, that nobody commented on the cooking temperature approaching 170* and the meat completely gray. Even at 150*, that's way too well done, at least for my taste. Meat protein begins to breakdown and completely dry out in a burger at those temperatures, thus a dry lifeless burger. Like steak, I want mine rare to medium rare and no more than 140*. That's going to cook to the safe zone (if that's a worry) and retain moisture. Try that on your next burgers and see if that helps.

 

[RiversideSm0ker]

I agree with troutman. If the burger is gray, it's done. There is no amount of sauce that will save that puppy. You have to keep some juice in your burgers. I do a medium rare on mine. I don't use pre made patties if I can avoid them. If I do use them I know from the outset that they are just going to be passable. They will only take 5-7 minutes total to cook. You can dry those out in a heartbeat. If you form your own patties out of standard 80/20 I just don't see a reason why you wouldn't come out with a pretty tasty burger. Just so long as you don't walk away and let them burn. You should be good.

George

 

[troutman]

I did want to add a disclaimer to the cooking temps. USDA recommends that you cook burger meat to 165* IT. That's due to the handling and processing of the meat in the factory setting and increased potential for bacterial contamination. I generally either grind my own meat or have a trusted butcher grind it for me. Like others have said, I use no less than 80% lean and prefer mine from the chuck or the brisket for optimum flavor and fat content.

 

[zwiller]

Never ate there but 5 Guys is a smash burger. I assumed BG is talking the big thick tavern or pub style burger that is grilled and tastes like a steak. Smash is like 3-4oz and pub is gonna be 8-10oz. One key to my pub burger besides the extreme high heat is a rest in the oven set at 170F. I'd say at least 30m but often times much more. LOTS of carryover heat from a hot grill that will finish the interior. Going back to high heat... Go look up some of the fancy steak places and pubs and you will find they are using a salamander which is a high temp broiler. A sear burner does the same and a typical grill ain't gonna cut it.

 

[RiversideSm0ker]

I'm certain that the best solution to this is for all of us to head out to BG's and have him cook us burgers and then while we are there with a bucket of 80/20 we come up with the perfect solution through trial and error. Practice makes perfect right? Let's do this!

George

 

[Binford 6100]

I agree that a medium rare burger is best. Unless it's a smash Burger.

I don't know about that whole fish sauce thing. But I'll mix in some Worcestershire sauce and always salt and pepper both sides on a pub style. A smash Burger only needs light seasoning on one side.

 

[tallbm]

I prescribe to the simplicity approach and then working up from there.

Simply:

1. Get a pound of ground meat (80/20 or a little leaner if you like)
2. Start by making 3 patties about 1/2 inch in thickness then mush about a 1inch diameter divet/dent in the middle of the patties after they are made
3. Season patties with Salt, Pepper, Onion, Garlic to immediately cook
4. Immediately throw on a hot grill or pan or whatever after seasoning, do not wait!
5. Cook to your liking (medium, well, etc. etc.). A general rule of thumb I learned is to cook for about 2-3 min then flip and cook for 2 min or so and then press down on patties with a spatchula when the liquid runs clear (as in without blood) then they are ready if not cook a little longer and then press test them again.

That will give you a simple simple simple process and a fantastic simple seasoning/flavor for a GREAT foundation for burger making.
After this is about perfected begin to then tweak any of the 5 steps to your liking and see what improves the burger and what does not.

This is basically the way to learn to cook a burger. Everything else with move involved steps or process, combination of flavors and seasonings, and whatever you can think of is just making the burger your own specific way :)

I've done this simple process with great success even on pure ground Venison (99% lean)!
I personally have my own tweaks but the simple steps above will never steer you wrong and it's easy to get back to a good foundational burger should any tweaks get out of hand :)

 

[browneyesvictim]

I am just amazed by this thread. I mean burgers are just meant to be simple and uncomplicated. Don't get me wrong, I've been watching... in expectation to learn something new as I often do here on SMF. But the biggest thing sticking out in my mind is that everyone has their own idea of what a great burger is. There are several styles, and I like each one in their own rite. I like thin crispy sliders, but is just different- and just as good as a thick grill burger. However, that same grind will have a different texture, So what do you want? Hand formed patties, a press, or just the bottom of a plate work just as well no matter how thick you make them. Season before or after? There is no wrong answer! For me, I will agree that simple is best.

Now Salisbury Steak on the other hand...

 

[Bearcarver]

I never take a Temp reading, but I always try to keep some pink in the center when I remove them.
I actually forgot to cut one in half to show it on this batch (below), but they all had some Pink left in there.
Not dripping in blood, but nice Pink centers:
Memorial Day Deerburgers:
https://www.smokingmeatforums.com/threads/memorial-day-deerburgers.276013/

Bear

 

[old sarge]

Burgers suck? Have a beer and get over it. Really suck? Have two more beers and send out for pizza!

 

[bgaviator]

I had one...ONE on my first cook get to 170. The others temped at 150 per my first post. Since I’ve been making thicker burgers since that first post I have been not over cooking them.

 

[bgaviator]

I’ve been getting my Kamado up to 500-600 degrees and preheating the cast iron griddle plate in it. But with the thicker burgers this last time, the burgers were starting to burn before the insides were done.

On the fish sauce, I got that tip plus the Duke’s mayo tip from the same article.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2015/07/02/the-15-step-absolutely-perfect-burger/

Never ate there but 5 Guys is a smash burger. I assumed BG is talking the big thick tavern or pub style burger that is grilled and tastes like a steak. Smash is like 3-4oz and pub is gonna be 8-10oz. One key to my pub burger besides the extreme high heat is a rest in the oven set at 170F. I'd say at least 30m but often times much more. LOTS of carryover heat from a hot grill that will finish the interior. Going back to high heat... Go look up some of the fancy steak places and pubs and you will find they are using a salamander which is a high temp broiler. A sear burner does the same and a typical grill ain't gonna cut it.

 

[bgaviator]

I like all kinds of burgers. Smash and thick. I’ve been trying to do thick burgers. Haven’t tried smash yet.
But yes the stuff at the restaurants tastes like a good steak. Maybe I just won’t get that flavor at home without actually using ground steak or brisket? I know a lot of restaurants use various meat blends. I just don’t want to be spending that kind of money on those kinds of meats for something we won’t use up in a timely manner. I have a butcher shop that makes a burger blend that is ground ribeye and short rib. Kinda pricey at $8.99/lb but maybe that would give me more of the flavor I’m looking for? All the articles I read on making burgers always just recommend 80/20 chuck though. Maybe though that’s just because it’s easy for the home cook but not necessarily the best flavor?

 

[AllAces]

70/30 ground beef.
Minimum handling of the burger.
Burger on a very hot griddle/flat top, smash the burger with something heavy like a brick covered with foil.
Salt and pepper and a pat of butter.
Cook until there's a crust, turn once.

 

[gmc2003]

I do burgers with either 80/20 or 70/30 and mix in a little worcestershire or A1. Form a ball and squish them down with plate and a piece of parchment paper until I have the desired thickness. Sear both sides on the Kettle right over the Vortex, melt the cheese and finish cooking off on the outer half of the grate.

Chris

 

[bgaviator]

Do you all think I should be cooking at a lower temp too? Maybe 400 instead of the 500-600 I’ve been running at?
I tell ya what’s really hard about the Kamado is when you start getting into the 500+ range, the flames are raging like crazy. Gotta move quick!

 

[tallbm]

Do you all think I should be cooking at a lower temp too? Maybe 400 instead of the 500-600 I’ve been running at?
I tell ya what’s really hard about the Kamado is when you start getting into the 500+ range, the flames are raging like crazy. Gotta move quick!

Depends on the thickness of the burger for me. If you are doing really thick burgers then you run into the outside burning up before the inside is cooked. That is fine when doing a thick steak since you want sear and char on the outside and the inside medium rare or less but with a burger you may need to cook a little more so on a thicker burger I would come down some on temp like you are thinking.

This is why I mention to go with a 1/2 inch burger patty to start with so that you can more easily get your desired cook (med rare through to well). At 1/2 an inch thick life is much simpler :)
I find I like big burger patties in diameter way more than in thickness. I like my patties to stick out past the bun or at least bee the same size as the bun diameter :)

As for meat a little trick I learned while working in a grocery store is that the ground meat that the grocery store butcher sells in the old school packaging of foam tray and wrapped in plastic wrap, is ground meat from all of the steak trimmings they have from trimming everything from ribeye down to chuck steaks. So you get chuck, or round, or a combination of steak trimmings that are better fur 80/20 prices or even less expensive! :D

I hope all of this info helps :)

 

[zwiller]

I’ve been getting my Kamado up to 500-600 degrees and preheating the cast iron griddle plate in it. But with the thicker burgers this last time, the burgers were starting to burn before the insides were done.

On the fish sauce, I got that tip plus the Duke’s mayo tip from the same article.

https://www.washingtonian.com/2015/07/02/the-15-step-absolutely-perfect-burger/

It takes some learning to cook over extreme high heat. At first you will be convinced you are burning/ruining it but that is actually the key. Dare I say you actually want it to "burn". This is the world famous Peter Luger porterhouse. The exterior is probably darker than most guys do at home. 1800F salamander broiler... What happens during the rest is that the juices flow and meat relaxes so there is little to no char. Burgers are the same. Eventually you will get a feel for it but you will be leary for awhile. An alternative to a sear burner is using a CI skillet over a propane "cajun cooker".

 

[lancep]

So I’ve been reading through this thread and now I’m not sure I remember everything that’s been suggested or tried so forgive me. Have you tried a reverse sear yet? It seems like you’re trying to get a good crust without cooking the life out of it or eating raw beef. I’m not familiar with your cooker but from the pictures I’ve been looking at it seems that you could put your cast iron accessory on one half of the lower grate and a water pan on the other with the upper half grate directly above. That should let you bring your IT up to a little short of your target and then finish on the cast iron to get your crust. Again, forgive me if you’ve already tried this.

Lance