Traeger: all smoke, no heat

[johnmeyer]

I spent the holiday with my wife's new in-laws who have a Traeger (similar to a BBQ075). The mom says that the Traeger didn't work. I offered to fix it, since I'm an engineer and arrogantly think I can fix anything.

I inspected it, then turned it on, and in a few seconds was getting huge amounts of smoke from the chimney. I've never seen that much smoke in my life, especially from a Traeger which, in the demos I've seen at the local hardware store, often puts out almost no smoke.

I waited for five minutes and then had her take a look. She said, "that's the problem: it smokes, but it doesn't get hot." I opened the smoker lid and sure enough, it was dead cold, and the temperature gauge, even after five minutes, showed a reading not far above ambient.

I took it apart far enough to see the two fans, and then took everything out of the fire box so I could see the firepot.

Here's the key thing: the firepot was filled to the brim, and there were unburned chips on the bottom of the smoker.

I emptied the firepot, threw the smouldering chips in a water bucket, and then went through the instructions for the initial lighting. Everything checks out:

1. The ignitor works (obviously, or I wouldn't have gotten smoke)
2. Both fans were spinning fast
3. The holes leading into the firebox were clear and unobstructed and I could feel a LOT of air coming through
   
4. The auger was delivering chips (again, not surprising given that the firepot was filled to the brim, and then some).

I used a shop vac to completely clean out the firepot; I made sure the entry to the auger was clear; I made sure everything was clean around the two fans; I then reassembled and tried again.

This time it worked!! I got it up to 300 degrees (it sure heats up fast), then turned it down and then back up again. Everything seemed to be perfectly OK.

So, it appears to me that because of either a flaw in the design, or a mis-step in how she has been shutting down or starting up, the firepot fills up with pellets and then when the smoker is next used, the pellets at the bottom of the big pile ignite during the startup phase, but can't get enough air to ignite and burn because they are buried deep under a firepot full of pellets.

Therefore you get all smoke and no heat, just like I said in the subject heading. It's like a too-rich mixture in a gasoline engine.

I've told her in the future that if this happens just get to the firepot and clean out all the chips and all will be good, but there must be some way of preventing this from happening.

Does anyone have any advice, ideas, or suggestions? I researched this here and elsewhere but couldn't find an answer.

BTW, she is using genuine Traeger pellets.

Thanks!

 

[daveomak]

Did it work properly for a full cooking cycle.. like for an hour or longer... If so, I think on shut down, the auger is mis wired and not getting the signal... It quits feeding when called for in the cook cycle... shut down cycle, not... the fans shut down during the shut down cycle otherwise all the pellets would burn up... or something like that...

 

[johnmeyer]

Yes, my sense is that there is something wrong in the shutdown process which leaves the firepot too full. It seems as though the auger control keeps advancing chips even when very little heat is being called for.

I did try turning the heat down to a low temperature, after first bringing it up to 300, but forgot to look at the auger to see if it stopped or slowed down.

Like the MES (which I own and use all the time), I do wonder whether they electrical engineers who worked on these designs had a lot of practical experience (I am an EE myself).

I guess I could write Traeger and ask them ...

 

[tbrtt1]

Sounds like it is the auger not getting the signal or something is causing the auger to advance too much during startup. It could also be the igniter not getting hot enough to fully ignite the pellets. Or a combination of both.

 

[johnmeyer]

Any of those could be true, especially the idea that the auger is advancing too much. Near as I can tell the one and only sensor that causes the controller to change fan speeds and auger advancement is the temperature sensor. It seems to be functioning just fine because this is a digital unit, and the readout looked quite accurate, and once I got the Traeger working, the digital readout did match the temperature setting.

I just re-read the manual and found that, directly under the instructions on how to light the unit after the initial startup, there are several paragraphs of "warnings" which describe exactly what happened to this unit: the firepot fills up and therefore the unit will not re-light. Therefore, this is a known problem and now that I understand this is a design flaw and not a failure, I should be asking: how do you avoid having the firepot fill up at the end of a smoke so that, when you next re-start the unit, it fails to light?

 

[daveomak]

Check the schematic and see it a wire is out of place... You know they don't hire the smartest apples in the bin to work on that stuff...

 

[troutman]

Sounds like there's definitely a problem with the controller. On my Pellet Pro PID you have a 15 minute shut down cycle that burns off the unwanted material in the burn cup then adds about a tablespoon full of pellets for the next startup cycle. I'm not as familiar with Traeger but their controllers are not as sophisticated and I'll bet if it continues happening that the controller will need to be changed. Obviously the auger, fan and burn rod appear to be functioning. It's a simple plug and play change out if that's the case. Good luck, I'm sure Traeger will help with the diagnosis.

Also you keep mentioning "chips". I assume you mean pellets, correct?

 

[tbrtt1]

I vac out the burn pot before each smoke. Of course, long after the last use of the pit so as not to suck up embers.

 

[idahopz]

I have a Traeger that performed much the same, but when I switched out the stock controller with a Pellet Pro PID, it works perfectly now. Like troutman said, there is a 15 minute cool down period (with the PID) that clears the burn pot and ready the unit for the next cook. I'm a bad owner that does not clean out the ashes much (I should be ashamed of myself), but the unit works every time I turn it on, even right now in the middle of winter.

 

[bregent]

Is there a shutdown cycle on this model and are you sure she was using the shut down cycle at the end of the cook? If she's just flipping the toggle switch she'll end up with unburned pellets in the pot.

 

[johnmeyer]

I've written to Traeger (today, so no response yet) to ask if this is an operator issue that can be corrected.

Bregent brings up a really good point that if she just pulls the plug, there may be a problem. However, having said that, when I was "fixing" it yesterday, after I was finished testing I turned the digital controller knob to "off." To my ears it seemed like all noise ceased and therefore this is equivalent to pulling the plug. This makes me think that the Traeger design just lets nature take its course and have the pellets burn down on their own once you are finished. Since I use an AMNPS in my MES, I am fully aware that pellets (sorry about saying "chips" in an earlier post) are quite happy to smoulder and burn down on their own, so the Traeger approach should work most of the time.

However, if there is not a shut down cycle (and it appears that there is not), I can see how you might get the firepot into some weird states depending on how often you adjusted the temperature up and down, and it would end up with too many chips, and not enough air to let the smouldering burn them all the way down to ashes.

If all else fails, I'll recommend to her what tbrtt recommends, namely to spoon out most of the chips before starting. I think it would be easier to do it on the starting end rather than immediately after the burn, so you don't have to deal with potentially live chips, etc.

I would have no problem installing the PID controller like troutman and idahopz have done, although she may not want me to do that (she seemed embarrassed by me spending half an hour cleaning it out and troubleshooting). I will, however, see if I can find a link to that controller and see how much it is and whether it is "plug and play," or whether I am going to have to buy some Molex connectors and other parts to mate it up with the two fans. I assume the heat-resistant wire from the temperature probe is either soldered onto the board. I'll also do some reading to see if it provides any other advantages. Since it is "PID," I suppose it might have somewhat better heat regulation, although the stock controller seemed to be doing OK, at least based on what their digital readout showed.

I assume (probably wrongly) that the Traeger digital controller would be more accurate than their analog controllers, but who knows.

Thanks!

P.S. For those not familiar with PID controllers, I wrote a short summary two months ago of how they work (I'm an EE):

PID Controller Theory of Operation

 

[idahopz]

I did mine quite a while ago on a 2009 vintage Lil' Tex, and it was plug and play - do not remember cutting/soldering anything to make it work. It was long enough ago that I do not recall details, but it took all of about 30 minutes, and even comes with an insert so it fits into the stock Traeger controller hole. The temperature control is excellent: was +/-25 degrees with the stock controller and now +/- 3-5 degrees with the PID. Also nice that it has a food probe. It was not cheap however, about $200, but for me turned the Traeger from a real annoyance to operate into a well oiled machine.

Here are a couple of pics:

First time firing it up:

 

[johnmeyer]

Wow, thanks for that post, complete with pictures, no less. Congratulations on being able to find the pics after all this time.

Since I last posted earlier today, I researched the Pellet Pro but was a little put off by the price. Someone gave me my MES, and I think its price was not much different than this controller! The food probe would be a definite bonus since I don't think she has any sort of food probe, although if I want to solve that issue, I'd probably get her a Maverick or something equivalent.

I'm still waiting for a reply from Traeger, although because of the holidays I expect it will take them quite awhile to respond.

 

[bregent]

Do you know how old her traeger is? I think the controllers on the newer ones have a specific shut down setting. But I though even the older ones had a cool down cycle when you set the knob to 'Off'.

I'd consider replacing with an Ortech. Only $68, drop in replacement, and has a cool down cycle. Most folks really like them.

 

[johnmeyer]

In answer to your question, I think her unit is about four years old, and the controller has a digital display and a simple knob that controls both the temperature control and the on/off. There is no separate on/off switch.

It only took about half an hour to partially take it apart to confirm that the controller and two motors were working just fine, then find the problem, clean out the firepot and surrounding area at the bottom of the smoker, fire it up, and confirm that it was now working again. I then ran the controller up and down in temperature and confirmed that everything responded in a normal way. When I was finished and ready to put it away, I turned the knob to off, but left it plugged in for ten minutes, thinking that there might be a shutdown cycle of some sort (without one, how can you make sure the pellets burn down?). My recollection is that the moment I turned the knob to "off," all fan noise immediately ceased completely, indicating that there is no shutdown cycle, as has been described for the fancy PID controllers.

I am still hoping to hear from Traeger, although they still haven't responded, so perhaps their support isn't going to respond at all (it is four days and counting). I am losing hope on getting any help on that front. That's too bad.

So, unless I hear otherwise, I will instruct her to check the firepot before each startup and clean out most of the remaining chips, especially if the thing is full to the top. Since I've now found that many other people have this problem, and that it is an obvious design defect in the Traeger units, that is the simplest solution.

 

[daveomak]

I have heard from folks, it is best to empty the pellet hopper between uses... They can collect moisture, the pellets swell and can crumble to dust... Maybe, only add the amount of pellets you will need for one cycle.... Probably a learning process, then let all the pellets remaining burn out...

 

[bregent]

When I was finished and ready to put it away, I turned the knob to off, but left it plugged in for ten minutes, thinking that there might be a shutdown cycle of some sort (without one, how can you make sure the pellets burn down?).

The controller in that model should have a shutdown cycle, so if it shut off as soon as you turned the knob off, the controller is most likely faulty. Note that some controllers run the shutdown cycle until a specific pit temp is reached. Others just run a straight timed cycle- I believe the Traeger are the latter.

Again, if you end up replacing the controller consider the Ortech which most folks prefer over the stock Traeger.
www.amazon.com/Digital-Thermostat-Traeger-Grills-Ortech/dp/B00N109ZPM/

 

[bregent]

I have heard from folks, it is best to empty the pellet hopper between uses... They can collect moisture, the pellets swell and can crumble to dust... Maybe, only add the amount of pellets you will need for one cycle.... Probably a learning process, then let all the pellets remaining burn out...

If you are going to be storing the grill for the winter and don't plan to use it for several months then removing the pellets is a good idea. Emptying the hopper between regular uses is not necessary and I don't know anybody that does that.

 

[tbrtt1]

My Traeger Lil Tex has a pellet dump shoot so it is easy for me to empty the hopper. Just open the shoot and collect the pellets in a bucket. I have 2 buckets with lids that fit tight that I use for this reason.

I upgraded my controller to a Savannah Stoker PID controller. It was a drop in replacement with wire connectors ready to go. It comes with its own temp probe that you can use or use your existing temp probe (at least I could with my model). I have been pleased with it and it has a lot of good features. One feature I use frequently is the 3 stage cooking process: I can program it to smoke at a certain temp for a certain amount of time, then have the temp kicked up for either a certain amount of time or until the meat probe (comes with the controller and simply plugs into jack on controller) reaches a certain temp and then have the unit drop in temp to a certain holding temp. Great for briskets and butts as I cook them while I sleep.

 

[johnmeyer]

Thanks for all the replies!!

I had no idea there were so many options for an aftermarket controller. I guess that's the advantage to buying a heavily-marketed, widely distributed product. I very much like the features tbrtt1 describes for the Svannah Stoker PID. I'll take a look, but I assume that if it can do all those things that it also includes some sort of shutdown cycle where it stops the auger and feeds just enough air to let the remaining pellets burn down.