Time, not temp

[pseudorand]

Does the final temp actually matter? If so, why?

I smoked a couple of pork butts on a pit boss yesterday. I started at 4 am and I was expecting 18 hours or so. But at midnight they hadn't yet hit 185 and I needed sleep. Most articles seem to say to take it out between 195 and 210, so I turned the smoker down to 200 and went to bed, assuming it would be near 200 when I woke up.

I woke up at 4am and the temp had actually dropped to 177 (the meat, the grill temp was 205).

It turned out absolutely perfect. 24 hours @ 275 to 200 (I turned it back and forth a few times).

Perhaps it did get to 205 before the grill cooled down, but since it ultimately dropped to 177 and had been going up at a very slow but steady rate, I doubt it. I would guess it never got above 195. I had two different thermometers, and they agreed so I suspect the temps I was awake to see were accurate.

So why so all the recipes say to cook it to 205 or 210? Does the final temp really matter, or is time alone the real secret ingredient?

 

[SmokinEdge]

It’s both. Time and temp. That said, neither matter in terms of meat being done.

Probe tender is the ultimate test. Not temp or time. Also meat internals will lag the pit temp by 20-25 degrees. So turning the cooker down is actually counter productive.

 

[chilerelleno]

It’s both. Time and temp. That said, neither matter in terms of meat being done.

Probe tender is the ultimate test. Not temp or time. Also meat internals will lag the pit temp by 20-25 degrees. So turning the cooker down is actually counter productive.

SmokinEdge
Is right on the money.

 

[thirdeye]

Does the final temp actually matter? If so, why?

Before the turn of the century (the one in 2001, not 1901 ) I never had a cooker that had a pit thermometer, and I don't recall taking meat temperatures. Barbecuists and other live fire cooks around the world, were taught to use their senses and watch the coals develop, feel the heat, listen for the sizzle, and smell the aroma of roasting meat, especially the little flavor bombs of fat dripping into the coals. Doneness on barbecue meats was as easy as probing with a toothpick on ribs and chicken, or an ice pick on brisket or pork shoulder. It was quite a learning curve. Even cooks that only grilled burgers and steaks would take special pride in turning, poking and prodding those meats before finally announcing they are done.

Then everything started changing. For me it was buying a Big Green Egg and listening to the "Eggheads" that had far more Eggsperience and tools than I had. They tracked 'dome temps', 'grate temps', 'meat temps' and also kept cooking logs. For steaks, some advocated a 'front sear' often called the T-Rex method or the 'burn and turn' method, and others liked the 'end sear' or 'reverse sear' aka "Finney Method". The Eggheads had handheld thermometers, probe thermometers and all kinds of forced draft fans and pit controllers.

It was kind of intimidating to old school Barbecuists. But, science is good and old dogs can learn new tricks. Jumping 15 or 20 years ahead from some of the gadgets in the picture above.... now we have wi-fi and bluetooth equipment that can graph your cook, or ping your smartphone with pre-set alerts. And you can make adjustments to your pit temp remotely if you choose.

Getting back to your question... temperature does matter. In fact it's critical if you are cooking a 7-bone prime rib roast or some tenderloins. Forget the timer or clock, a good thermometer is your friend. For barbecue... it's good to have a general idea how fast your meats are cooking, and to have a ball park finish temperature (a target temp) to shoot for. But the number one answer when discussing tenderness of the larger barbecue meats will be some combination of time, temperature and doneness by probing. It's still an art.

 

[jcam222]

Specifically does temp matter it’s a resounding yes. That’s true for both quality of your finished product and for food safety. As others said tenderness can occur at various temps but overall it’s the way to judge doneness not time. Time also varies greatly depending on cook temp. I can do a butt at 225 and it’s takes maybe 10- 12 hours whereas I can do butts at 275 and finish in 6-7.

 

[Brokenhandle]

Each piece of meat is gonna cook differently. You can cook two pork butts at the same time, same temp, and same size and they might not finish at the same time.

Ryan

 

[pseudorand]

Specifically does temp matter it’s a resounding yes. That’s true for both quality of your finished product and for food safety. As others said tenderness can occur at various temps but overall it’s the way to judge doneness not time. Time also varies greatly depending on cook temp. I can do a butt at 225 and it’s takes maybe 10- 12 hours whereas I can do butts at 275 and finish in 6-7.

What so you mean by "takes"? If you mean "reached 205", that's one thing, but if you mean "gets fork-tender", why wouldn't you just always cook them at 275?

As for why mine took 24 hours at 275, it's probably because I had 3 big, round ones in there and it was really rainy (for Colorado), so I got a really long stall.

 

[jcam222]

What so you mean by "takes"? If you mean "reached 205", that's one thing, but if you mean "gets fork-tender", why wouldn't you just always cook them at 275?

As for why mine took 24 hours at 275, it's probably because I had 3 big, round ones in there and it was really rainy (for Colorado), so I got a really long stall.

Yes “takes” as in to reach 205ish / probe tender. I usually do cook mine at 275F. As to yours taking 24 hours at 275 I cannot comprehend why that is even with the factors you mentioned.

 

[chopsaw]

I never had a cooker that had a pit thermometer, and I don't recall taking meat temperatures.

Same here . Cooked countless turkeys on a Weber kettle with no lid therm or instant read .
At times a check of meat temp with an instant read or a probe therm can lead you down the path of ruin .
Anyone that's been doing this for years should know when something is ready .
That being said , it does help to watch what's going on .

 

[noboundaries]

Chamber temp = clock speed. The higher the chamber temp, the faster the cook. The lower the chamber temp, the longer the cook. A hunk of tough meat in a low chamber temp may reach a probe tender stage at a lower internal meat temp because the tough, dry collagen has had a longer time to melt. In a dry chamber, that melting point is usually 170°F internal meat temp (chamber temp must be higher to keep transfering heat). The longer a hunk of tough meat stays at that temp or higher, the more collagen will melt. Take it out too soon, and the meat will taste dry and tough.

Meat temp is a guide, not a destination (exceptions below). Meat temp will indicate when to start probing for tenderness. Always probe the leanest section of meat, not the fattiest portion.

Exceptions: poultry, pork, ground meats, steaks, and lean roasts. These you cook to meat temp to either be safe (poultry/pork/ground meats) or reach the rare to well done stages (steaks and lean roasts).

Sous vide is a different animal because water transfers heat 25x's faster than air.

Bottom line, there are a LOT of pitmaster books, websites, and videos that are offered as definitive guides by guys/gals who do not understand the physics and thermodynamics of heat transfer. Whenever I see someone advising a cook/smoke to an internal temp for completion of a tough cut of meat, I know the limit of their knowledge and understanding.

 

[texas smokin]

It’s both. Time and temp. That said, neither matter in terms of meat being done.

Probe tender is the ultimate test. Not temp or time. Also meat internals will lag the pit temp by 20-25 degrees. So turning the cooker down is actually counter productive.

Not sure I agree with that. Especially for poultry. For safety's sake and to avoid some common uncooked bacteria, you do need a temp above 160. I'm not sure you can probe a chicken breast or turkey to confirm you've reached that safety temp.

 

[pseudorand]

What I'm looking for is the secret to "easy mode". Say I threw a hunk of meat into my smoker, set it to 200 and just didn't touch it for 24 hours. What could go wrong?

 

[SmokinEdge]

What I'm looking for is the secret to "easy mode". Say I threw a hunk of meat into my smoker, set it to 200 and just didn't touch it for 24 hours. What could go wrong?

Let’s unpack this.

First thing is the 40-140F IT of meat in 4 hours or less.
Now, “hunk of meat” is just to broad of an example. Could be chicken, could be a whole shoulder or leg. These all need a different approach.

Lets just say for the sake of conversation that that “hunk” is a 10# pork butt. At 200F pit temp and a 40F butt, you will be hard pressed to get the IT of the butt to 140 in 4 hours or less. Meat IT will lag behind behind pit temp by 20-25 degrees. This is why the 225F pit temp is the holy grail for some pit masters. With a 225 degree pit temp you should clear the 140 IT in 4 hours or less, you have the longest cooking time to tender which means more smoke flavor, and the meat will reach 205 IT which is very close to perfect for butts and brisket. Cooking at 225 leaves little room for error and stall times can be agonizing meaning it’s hard to know a solid time frame for completing the cook, your time must be flexible or have a large buffer.

Cooking at 200F can eventually produce a tender product at a lower IT, say 180F but this takes way more time, and you are not certain to clear the 40-140 in 4 hours or less food safety rule. There is nothing new under the sun. 225 has always been the lowest cook temp for reasons stated for uncured meats.

Most of us cook at 250-275 because we can control the time to tender much more effectively. Cooking meat isn’t baking bread In the home oven. There are always variables like weather, outside temp, wind, and the piece of meat it’s self. We need every advantage we can get and playing on the margins is not that.

 

[DougE]

First thing is the 40-140F IT of meat in 4 hours or less.

Except on whole unadulterated muscle like a brisket or butt (not injected or otherwise messed with), as long as surface temp hits 140° in 4 hours, you're good. Just throwing that out there.

 

[pikingrin]

This. Lots of unknowns but ya need to know your pit, heat zones, etc, to help out with those lags/plateaus in the long run. My pit runs right at around 225 if you look at the chamber therm but if you set a chamber probe from a wired unit in there, it varies every 10” you move it on both racks. A big thing for me is knowing about the properties of the “hunk of meat” - lots of connective tissue that needs to break down (pork shoulder/brisket)? Overly lean, needing a quicker cook and more attention (pork tenderloin/loin roast). Gotta play the pit to the meat.

On my second day on this forum I hope this doesn’t strike a chord…. A big thing, personally, I’d don’t be afraid to wrap to help push through the plateau, especially for briskets and shoulders. I’ll wrap briskets tight with foil/paper right at 155 and shoulders around 165 just to make sure that the cook continues and doesn’t stall. At those temps, it’s generally the 4ish hour mark and the meat has had plenty of smoke to build bark and have a nice smoke ring.

All that said, as has been said already - both matter. The ending temp (and some resting after) matter for the quality of the results. It’s gonna take different amounts of time for different pieces of meat, even similar cuts.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Except on whole unadulterated muscle like a brisket or butt (not injected or otherwise messed with), as long as surface temp hits 140° in 4 hours, you're good. Just throwing that out there.

True statement, but I’m just covering all the bases. If we want to talk specific pieces of meat or circumstances we can, but I’m trying to give good general advice with food safety. But I agree with you Doug in a specific sense.

 

[DougE]

True statement, but I’m just covering all the bases. If we want to talk specific pieces of meat or circumstances we can, but I’m trying to give good general advice with food safety. But I agree with you Doug in a specific sense.

Deboned, injected, stuffed like an unrolled loin, or comminuted meats like meatloaf and uncured sausages, the 40 to 140 IT rule definitely applies.

 

[SmokinEdge]

Deboned, injected, stuffed like an unrolled loin, or comminuted meats like meatloaf and uncured sausages, the 40 to 140 IT rule definitely applies.

All that, and don’t forget poultry in general.

 

[DougE]

All that, and don’t forget poultry in general.

Agree. I don't mess around with poultry with safety in mind. Why I spatchcock turkeys so they get above 140 IT pretty quick.

 

[WaterRat]

It’s both as others have said. Think this way: if i have some cubed up round and toss it in a chili pot, it will be close to 200deg in 20 minutes. Is it done? No. It needs time above the rendering temp to break down all those tough connective fibers. Smokin meats, give it time, probe it and let the meat tell you when it’s ready.