You can shove it in the middle and measure your roast at that point. Actually long before that point, but if you want to wait four hours you can... though half an hour should kill the bad things if they are on the outside.
Temp. Probe Contamination !?!?
- Thread starter dick bullard
- Start date
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- May 1, 2007
- 10,078
- 40
Is it just me or is this topic getting old and depressing? We went through this in Dec., Jan., and now Feb.. It seems that every month we can look forward to the Resurrection of this topic.
Don't get me wrong, I believe the USDA Food Safety Guidelines are necessary and save countless people from food poisoning.
I also believe that probably 99% of the households in the USA have never read nor heard of them but still somehow managed to raise families. A lot of home cooks probably don't even own a thermometer.
This is my favorite site to visit and Smoking Meat is supposed to be fun not a chore where you have to worry that if I do this wrong someone is going to be called by the USDA for doing it wrong.
I guess what I am saying is the constant bickering in threads like this is taking the fun out of Smoking.
Lets move on to fun things and let this thread DIE...
Don't get me wrong, I believe the USDA Food Safety Guidelines are necessary and save countless people from food poisoning.
I also believe that probably 99% of the households in the USA have never read nor heard of them but still somehow managed to raise families. A lot of home cooks probably don't even own a thermometer.
This is my favorite site to visit and Smoking Meat is supposed to be fun not a chore where you have to worry that if I do this wrong someone is going to be called by the USDA for doing it wrong.
I guess what I am saying is the constant bickering in threads like this is taking the fun out of Smoking.
Lets move on to fun things and let this thread DIE...
i am disappointed at this comment.......while i may not have the same credentials on paper i have been in the business for close to 30 yrs and have taken all of the classes that bob is certified to teach and have always been in the very hi 90's when tested (96 was the lowest ever) and according to this statement i still would not have the SAME credentials as bob. does this mean i am not able to come forward to comment on this subject? for me this is very detrimental for the food safety discussion as it sets up a platform of "culinary technical elitism" that tends to shun those of "lesser" knowledge just looking to find a "simple" answer. as a foodservce proessional i will always try to give help to someone who is looking for it.......not out of an egotistical drive or for the need for self validation but simply because of the respect, devotion, and love that i have for my craft.
i came here to this forum because i wanted to learn something that in my 25+ years of learning and working at my craft simply had no knowledge of how to smoke meats. sure i knew the "industry" way of making ribs but that is not the "honest" way. when i came here i took my title/badge off so i could learn from others who had been doing this for a while. did they have a "certifcation"......no, but they still had their advice and i listened, tried and changed things around to suit my likes. my point is that when a discussion takes place new ideas/problems/solutions come about and sometimes those of us at the "top" learn form those at the "bottom" of what ever type of rating system/catagory people placement type org. . sometimes people just want a simple answer of yes or no with a short reason. i clicked on the USDA site once........are you kidding me? i don't need to read 800 pgs to tell me how to handle/cook/hold food safely.....nor do i need it to tell someone else how to do the same. my numbers may not be the same as the USDA's and unlike the USDA's my standards have NEVER changed and i will guarantee i will NEVER get anyone sick.
with that being said, i hope that those who may be intimidated or just don't want to get into a big discussion or just want a simple answer do not be afraid to contact me via PM. if i don't have an answer i will find it for you. a foodsafety dicussion should never be a oneway report, Q&A with no back and forth engaugement, and forum to chastise anyone for their input or questions and no one should ever fear repercussions for doing so......period!
as a footnote........yes i do know this has gone around before and sometimes quite heated at times but as long as we have new comers this will always be a topic for discussion DISPITE what the forum administrators have decided to be the "standard".
i came here to this forum because i wanted to learn something that in my 25+ years of learning and working at my craft simply had no knowledge of how to smoke meats. sure i knew the "industry" way of making ribs but that is not the "honest" way. when i came here i took my title/badge off so i could learn from others who had been doing this for a while. did they have a "certifcation"......no, but they still had their advice and i listened, tried and changed things around to suit my likes. my point is that when a discussion takes place new ideas/problems/solutions come about and sometimes those of us at the "top" learn form those at the "bottom" of what ever type of rating system/catagory people placement type org. . sometimes people just want a simple answer of yes or no with a short reason. i clicked on the USDA site once........are you kidding me? i don't need to read 800 pgs to tell me how to handle/cook/hold food safely.....nor do i need it to tell someone else how to do the same. my numbers may not be the same as the USDA's and unlike the USDA's my standards have NEVER changed and i will guarantee i will NEVER get anyone sick.
with that being said, i hope that those who may be intimidated or just don't want to get into a big discussion or just want a simple answer do not be afraid to contact me via PM. if i don't have an answer i will find it for you. a foodsafety dicussion should never be a oneway report, Q&A with no back and forth engaugement, and forum to chastise anyone for their input or questions and no one should ever fear repercussions for doing so......period!
as a footnote........yes i do know this has gone around before and sometimes quite heated at times but as long as we have new comers this will always be a topic for discussion DISPITE what the forum administrators have decided to be the "standard".
stircrazy
Meat Mopper
ok one question, hopefully one that will help others.
If I have a big hunk of meat and I cut in in 1/2 with a nice single cut, can I treat the two halves as intact muscle meat? the answer to me would seam to be yes, but just want to clairify this.
Steve
If I have a big hunk of meat and I cut in in 1/2 with a nice single cut, can I treat the two halves as intact muscle meat? the answer to me would seam to be yes, but just want to clairify this.
Steve
Seems pretty simple to me.
I'm all for open discussion and lively debate but it seems to me that if the forum owner has decided on a standard source for safety related information, has determined and named who he feels should be Trusted Authorities, and has instructed his mod/admin staff to enforce those rules, then I think out of respect for him we should abide by his rules.
I don't think any mod or admin is saying people can't offer food safety advice unless they are a Trusted Authority. I think they are just asking that advice be given in accordance with the site owner's wishes which he made pretty clear in this thread.
http://www.smokingmeatforums.com/for...ad.php?t=86649
If people have questions about interpretations of certain aspects of the code, I'm sure bbally would be happy to answer those questions. Maybe they could be addressed in a separate thread so that the new folks won't be afraid to ask a food safety question for fear that they will start a war.
Dave
Agreed . Jeff has set his rules to " CHA " or " CYA " for you slow ones . How about common sense use ? If you stick something that is no where close to being done what's the point ? You guys ever hear of washing in hot water with Joy? I mean get real, stickit raw~ WASH it in hot water before re-using.How the h e l l did our parents ever raise us ..what with cutting up chickens on the same counter as fresh cut greens and french frys . Not to mention no seat belts in cars .
- Jun 21, 2007
- 8,427
- 42
I think there are some other members who share your opinion, if you take into consideration all the time and effort involved, it seems as if it's still in debate and without conclusion. But for those interested in other areas, they can move on to another/different thread.
Maybe they could be addressed in a separate thread so that the new folks won't be afraid to ask a food safety question for fear that they will start a war.
Dave[/quote]
Sometimes its amazing how a simple question can become so complicated.
SOB
Dave[/quote]
Sometimes its amazing how a simple question can become so complicated.
SOB
I think an important thing to remember in all this debate.... safe handling and cooking methods reduce your risk of food poisoning. If I can do something that is going to drop the odds of illness or even death..... I'm all over it man. That doesn't mean you have to.
It's common sense to me that if your not probing your meat before the exterior 1/2 inch reaches 140 degrees, your lowering the odds of creating bacteria that can cause food poisoning. I'm all for it, regardless of who suggests it or sanctions it. I base this on proven scientific fact of what conditions bacteria grow in.
Things that may not cause me illness may cause illness in someone elderly or someone young or someone that has a lowered immune system. The guidelines are there to keep everyone safe. To follow those guidelines and methods that are proven and known to reduce the risk is a personal choice.
If I answer a question on this forum it is to pass on information that I've researched, or experienced and feel confident in being responsible for that answer. You can follow all the safety methods and guidelines in smoking a piece of meat and end up sick because some goofball down the line mishandled that piece of meat.
My point being... there is no absolute here. It's numbers... it's like saying, if you do this... your gonna provide the perfect environment for growing bacteria.... but this and this and this are proven methods for reducing that risk.
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything here in this forum... just trying to pass on healthy, safe, accurate information. And yes this seems to come up every month or so in a little different format. I don't have credentials but I have learned an incredible amount of information from some that do.... and some that don't. I have a desire to learn and a desire to share.... and this forum gives me the opportunity for both.
It's common sense to me that if your not probing your meat before the exterior 1/2 inch reaches 140 degrees, your lowering the odds of creating bacteria that can cause food poisoning. I'm all for it, regardless of who suggests it or sanctions it. I base this on proven scientific fact of what conditions bacteria grow in.
Things that may not cause me illness may cause illness in someone elderly or someone young or someone that has a lowered immune system. The guidelines are there to keep everyone safe. To follow those guidelines and methods that are proven and known to reduce the risk is a personal choice.
If I answer a question on this forum it is to pass on information that I've researched, or experienced and feel confident in being responsible for that answer. You can follow all the safety methods and guidelines in smoking a piece of meat and end up sick because some goofball down the line mishandled that piece of meat.
My point being... there is no absolute here. It's numbers... it's like saying, if you do this... your gonna provide the perfect environment for growing bacteria.... but this and this and this are proven methods for reducing that risk.
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything here in this forum... just trying to pass on healthy, safe, accurate information. And yes this seems to come up every month or so in a little different format. I don't have credentials but I have learned an incredible amount of information from some that do.... and some that don't. I have a desire to learn and a desire to share.... and this forum gives me the opportunity for both.
Seems this thread has given a few a headache. Me being new here it has taught me a lot about food safety I did not know. I Did have to read though the posts and make choices on the material I read, but I for one learned a lot and I am glad you all talked about it and in the end will be safer in my smoking
mule86
Fire Starter
- Feb 15, 2010
- 51
- 10
Ok, I've gone through most of this thread.
For a beginner, can someone please tell me what is an acceptable way to cook chicken, beef, and pork and to what temps?
I cooked a chicken this past weekend, prepared it the night before (split and rubbed) put it in the fridge and fired up the smoker the next day. I got the chicken on, left it on for around an hour, and then began checking the internal temps with a probe. I did this several times before pulling it off and finishing it off in the oven at 350 to get the breast's above 165 and the thighs above 170. I don't recall the temp ever being below 150 when I probed them for the first time. Was this wrong? Could I have comprimised the meat? Finally, after I sliced it, It was left out in a covered container for a few hours before it was heated up again before serving. I'm sure I did a lot wrong here so please, be kind....
For a beginner, can someone please tell me what is an acceptable way to cook chicken, beef, and pork and to what temps?
I cooked a chicken this past weekend, prepared it the night before (split and rubbed) put it in the fridge and fired up the smoker the next day. I got the chicken on, left it on for around an hour, and then began checking the internal temps with a probe. I did this several times before pulling it off and finishing it off in the oven at 350 to get the breast's above 165 and the thighs above 170. I don't recall the temp ever being below 150 when I probed them for the first time. Was this wrong? Could I have comprimised the meat? Finally, after I sliced it, It was left out in a covered container for a few hours before it was heated up again before serving. I'm sure I did a lot wrong here so please, be kind....
first off there are 3 sets of temps involved:
1) doneness temps - these are when a particular meat is done
2) holding temp - this where you can hold fully cooked foods
3) reheat temp - this is the temp you need to reach when reheat fully cooked foods
also there is a danger zone rule that I go by:
40-140 deg for 4 hours. food (potentialy hazardous) needs to pass through this zone in 4 hours or less whether cooking or cooling. the USDA has wavered from the past to extend this time frame under certain conitions but i do not agree with it and will not recomend it to anyone for any reason.....period.
doneness temps -
poultry - 165
pork - 160
beef - 145*
seafood - 145
all ground meats - 165
* there are exceptions
holding temp - above 140
reheat temp - bring the temp to 165
no, but after an hour at smoking temps it would not have been done so probing would only let juices out.
yes, if you didn't clean/sterilize the probe and then probed again.
see holding temps and danger zone, if you were not going to serve it in the alotted time frame you should have cooled it and then reheated it....you did not state how long it sat out for.
1) doneness temps - these are when a particular meat is done
2) holding temp - this where you can hold fully cooked foods
3) reheat temp - this is the temp you need to reach when reheat fully cooked foods
also there is a danger zone rule that I go by:
40-140 deg for 4 hours. food (potentialy hazardous) needs to pass through this zone in 4 hours or less whether cooking or cooling. the USDA has wavered from the past to extend this time frame under certain conitions but i do not agree with it and will not recomend it to anyone for any reason.....period.
doneness temps -
poultry - 165
pork - 160
beef - 145*
seafood - 145
all ground meats - 165
* there are exceptions
holding temp - above 140
reheat temp - bring the temp to 165
no, but after an hour at smoking temps it would not have been done so probing would only let juices out.
yes, if you didn't clean/sterilize the probe and then probed again.
see holding temps and danger zone, if you were not going to serve it in the alotted time frame you should have cooled it and then reheated it....you did not state how long it sat out for.
mule86
Fire Starter
- Feb 15, 2010
- 51
- 10
What is the best way to steralize a probe when you have 2 split chickens that you will need to probe each one at different times? A lysol type disinfectant wipe? Physically wash in soap and water after each probe of each half?
The chicken set out, in a covered container for about 3 hours, (I now realize this is too long) and then we re-heated in the oven at 350 for about 10-15 minutes. I didn't check to see if the chicken came back up to 160. I'm kicking myself right now. 2 of the 6 Adults who ate have come up sick 48 hours after eating.
(However, my daughter, who didn't eat any of the chicken also is sick and they watched her for an entire day so we're not sure if it is just a bug, or from the chicken.) Needless to say, with this having been my first smoke, I'm more than a little paranoid about cooking for people again.
The chicken set out, in a covered container for about 3 hours, (I now realize this is too long) and then we re-heated in the oven at 350 for about 10-15 minutes. I didn't check to see if the chicken came back up to 160. I'm kicking myself right now. 2 of the 6 Adults who ate have come up sick 48 hours after eating.
washing in soap and water is cleaning...sanitizing is using a disinfectant like an alcohol patch or a mild bleach solution. i would recommend doing both. also i keep an mild bleach soluton (with soap) in a spray bottle on my counter at home and especial when dealing with poultry i hit everything that comes in contact with it and or juices.....including myself.
according to the USDA this is o.k..........not for me. also when reheating (or cooking for that matter) never go by time........always temp.
those who got sick should have gotten sick sooner if it was from that chicken....alot can happen in 48 hrs.
according to the USDA this is o.k..........not for me. also when reheating (or cooking for that matter) never go by time........always temp.
those who got sick should have gotten sick sooner if it was from that chicken....alot can happen in 48 hrs.
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